I don’t know about Jedi’s but.
Look at 7:25 of this video.
Great line there. Some anti-Soviet rhetoric perhaps?
Thanks for the link.
That was interesting, and indeed I am glad that Palpatine’s rule was finally called Stalinist by someone other then me. Though, there was also the way the Jedi seemed manipulated by Palpatine, indeed even training his own second in command as well as providing many vital elements of his rise to power in episode I by their reactions on Naboo. I still think we need to think about the implications of what alternaties there are to the republic other then was presented in the film.
The main difference that seperates a Sith from a Jedi in their use of the force is that Jedi try become one with the force and seek a partnership, whereas the Sith want to conquear it and bend it to its will.
It’s good to see people aren’t taking the “we are good cuz we’re Jedi” at face value… but to value the sith is by far the most anti-libertarian stance you can take (on nerdy sci-fi topics)
I’m a libertarian insofar as my politics are concerned. What I personally like in entertainment/fantasy is an entirely different matter, and here the Sith notion of controlling the force through sheer willpower appeals to me far more. I like libertarian concepts in sci fi or fantasy for instance but I’m enough of an escapist to like other things too.
Edited the error. oO
So it’s good that we don’t prejudge Jedi, but valuing the Sith is anti-libertarian? I think you need to reevaluate what you are saying.
The first principle of the Sith is that might makes right.. anti-libertarian
The second is that all beings should bow to the sith.. anti-libertarian
Like Jon said, it’s ok to have a little escapism, but to value the sith as some kind of ideal is a folly.
The principle’s of libertarianism say that cooperation should be voluntary, this is anti-thetical to how sith approach the force. The sith approach is to conquer the force and bend it to your will.
The empire is more statist then the Jedi. Guess the arm chair anarchists in star wars are limited to some fringe planets of the galaxy or perhaps to having academic jobs at some minor university on a Jedi planet.
Tatooine… Outer Rim…
The Sith is the Imperial Empire. Run by Emperor/Sith Lord Palpatine. Seems very aggression-prone. Enslaving planets (wookies). Taking land/property (ewoks).
'The first principle of the Sith is that might makes right.. anti-libertarian
The second is that all beings should bow to the sith.. anti-libertarian’
First, where are you deriving these principles?
Secondly, allowing for your statements it still does not follow that considering oneself superior and having a certain system of justice makes someone anti-libertarian. If I were to believe that all beings should give me their paychecks, that does not infer that I am contradicting my libertarian beliefs.
‘The principle’s of libertarianism say that cooperation should be voluntary, this is anti-thetical to how sith approach the force. The sith approach is to conquer the force and bend it to your will.’
The force is not an entity capable of rational, purposeful action. The force does not derive any system of rights. Conquering the force is like conquering a mountain. Would you complain that an individual is oppressing a mountain if he seeks to metaphorically conquer it by climbing to the peak?
It most certainly would if you believed in forcing them to hand them over. The Sith clearly believed in using force to bring their perverted notion of order to the Galaxy.
They are the enemy of the Sith, because the Sith want to dominate the galaxy, to control everything ~~George Lucas
“When your power eclipses mine I will become expendable. This is the Rule of Two: one Master and one apprentice. When you are ready to claim the mantle of Dark Lord as your own, you must do so by eliminating me.” ―Darth Bane to Darth Zannah
I thought those rules were quite clear, not needing any futher research but the movies.
And how is that not subjegative to believe that everyone owes you their paychecks? But that is not the point. The Sith would believe that everyone should give them their paychecks and if not, should be killed… that’s pretty anti-libertarian.
"By 200 BBY, Yoda, along with other great Jedi Masters of the age, discovered that the shape of the Force had begun to flux, becoming murky and uncertain. Studying the perplexing mystery in silent meditation, the Jedi High Council, of which Yoda was now a senior member, was unanimous; the power of the dark side was growing.
A wound in the Force was the result of a massive and sudden loss of life. As the Force is derived from life, it would become traumatized and wounded, affecting the places and people involved. The wound would never heal, and always hunger for life to fill the hole where life once existed."
I think the force was far from a mountain in its sentience…
It’s very, very debatable whether the Force is an intelligent entity or not. The films leave it, I suspect, intentionally ambiguous (for example, Anakin’s birth being the will of the Force or part of an experiment by a Sith Lord), whereas the EU tends to vary, especially as more postmodern, deconstructionist themes start to enter it after the Bantam era, which was more idealistic and akin to the serials that Lucas based his films on.
Well, the Jedi were used to enforce trade tarrifs, and they don’t deal in absolutes(unprincipled, as Rothbard would say). They seem pretty utilitarian to me. And anti-materialist. They scream of the left.
There are many good information and details so I hope you will read care fully and take more information …
'They are the enemy of the Sith, because the Sith want to dominate the galaxy, to control everything ~~George Lucas’
Well this is a literary transgression against methodological individualism. Being a Sith does not infer that you instantly want to dominate the galaxy merely because others who call themselves Sith want to do so.
‘“When your power eclipses mine I will become expendable. This is the Rule of Two: one Master and one apprentice. When you are ready to claim the mantle of Dark Lord as your own, you must do so by eliminating me.” ―Darth Bane to Darth Zannah’
That is a harsh system of survival of the fittest, not might makes right.
‘And how is that not subjegative to believe that everyone owes you their paychecks? But that is not the point. The Sith would believe that everyone should give them their paychecks and if not, should be killed… that’s pretty anti-libertarian.’
Feelings of entitlement are not contradictory to libertarianism. If a Sith were to suddenly start beating up people to take what they feel entitled to then they start transgressing libertarianism.
‘A wound in the Force was the result of a massive and sudden loss of life. As the Force is derived from life, it would become traumatized and wounded, affecting the places and people involved. The wound would never heal, and always hunger for life to fill the hole where life once existed.’
The force is not corporal or able to commit action. Again, it is incapable of rational, purposeful action therefore incapable of goals/preferences. Without preferences/morals/goals then it is not an entity that can feel emotions.It would be like being mad at NASA for taking gravity out of their zero-g chambers.
"Well this is a literary transgression against methodological individualism. Being a Sith does not infer that you instantly want to dominate the galaxy merely because others who call themselves Sith want to do so. "
The Sith is a religion. They DO neccesarily want to dominate everything. You’re thinking of Dark Jedi.
“Feelings of entitlement are not contradictory to libertarianism. If a Sith were to suddenly start beating up people to take what they feel entitled to then they start transgressing libertarianism.”
I said the same thing… once again, the sith WILL beat you up to take your stuff. A dark Jedi might not…
"The force is not corporal or able to commit action. Again, it is incapable of rational, purposeful action therefore incapable of goals/preferences. Without preferences/morals/goals then it is not an entity that can feel emotions.It would be like being mad at NASA for taking gravity out of their zero-g chambers. "
It is not so clear if the Force cannot feel emotion, or have purposeful action (“the Force is derived from life, it would become traumatized and wounded, affecting the places and people involved. The wound would never heal, and always hunger for life”). You know they DO call it the “living force.”
‘The Sith is a religion. They DO neccesarily want to dominate everything. You’re thinking of Dark Jedi.’
Firstly, even if it is a religion, which it isn’t; the Sith are a race which is something I will get into in a minute, methodological individualism still applies. Secondly, the Sith are the Dark Jedi. The original Sith were a race on Korriban which the Dark Jedi fled to after their expulsion from the Jedi order. The Dark Jedi intermarried with the Sith and just became the Sith. There is no difference between a Sith and a Dark Jedi in terms of a person. Now there are ancient Sith which are primal in form. They look like enraged beasts but these aren’t the Sith we are discussing.
‘I said the same thing… once again, the sith WILL beat you up to take your stuff. A dark Jedi might not…’
See above.
‘It is not so clear if the Force cannot feel emotion, or have purposeful action (“the Force is derived from life, it would become traumatized and wounded, affecting the places and people involved. The wound would never heal, and always hunger for life”). You know they DO call it the “living force.”’
Again this is just personification. Just because George Lucas uses it to describe an abstraction doesn’t infer that said abstraction is actually living. It would be akin to saying ‘Justice died today because you ruled incorrectly.’ Justice didn’t actually die. The individual would just be trying to humanize an abstract concept in order to draw in sympathy, compassion and evolve a connection.
Well, I’m not sure if anyone made this connection, but I absolutely loved it:
When Qui gon Jinn was on tatooine, he tried to purchase a new hyperdrive for the princess’ ship from a trader named Watto. The jedi made an attempt to purchase the good with his fiat republican credits and was laughed at. The trader said he needed something MORE REAL. The jedi then proceeded to use trickery to obtain the good with jedi powers. Again he failed.
Two points - The free market provailed against fiat and a libertarian would not try to compel a transaction.
This jedi is no libertarian, however i wouldn’t label them all, as I don’t think in terms of collectivism.