As Austrian Economists, what is the best way to approach discussion with others?

I’m new to this online community, and I’m excited to hear what you think!

I’m a college student at Belmont University, and I have to write a research paper on the subculture of mises.org and other subcultures surrounding Austrian economics. I can’t really go do a real observation for this, my only means of gathering information is through questioning and reading articles. I picked Austrian Economics because I’m a subscriber and I love to talk about it haha!

So in regards to the title, give me some of the ways you try to approach conversations when talking about economics. I’ve always enjoyed the ability to easily grasp what is being said when an Austrian economist is trying to explain something. It’s one of the reasons I started subscribing to Austrian Economics!

Thanks!

What do you mean by subculture?

me i dress up in black
and we listen to the sea
and look at the sky in a poetic kind of way

I tend to be a bit preachy on the fiat money issue. I feel like a voice crying in the wilderness. Folk’s eyes just glaze over while I’m revealing the fallacy of paper money. Then they change the subject to football and my eyes glaze over…

@liberty student

a subculture is like a cultural group within a larger culture, most often having varying beliefs or ideas from the larger culture. :slight_smile:

So I’m basically just talking about the Austrian School as a subculture in a very large group of economists. Ya dig?

@Andy Wessel thanks for the input man! I know how you feel! except I love football!!! When I explain fiat currency and fractional reserve banking, it tends to freak people out! HA!

Think stylistically too, not just topically. What is your tone, in a sense, when you’re talking economics?

thanks

-Tyler

I think we need a cartoon in line with “Money as Debt” but without the obvious crap. Like no other movement we have the opportunity to present a truly airtight argument.

I want to work up a roughdraft and submit it here at some point for review. then maybe I can get help with the animation (i’m not good with flash).

After a short was made it would be trivial for people to download it and burn a few dozen copies to distribute. I think it would be far more effective than brochures. People have an average of an 8th grade reading level.

how about a cartoon or poster that contains a better worded : money socialists havent realised that forced socialisation doesnt work for anything, that means money too

that wont work

I have been thinking about doing this for a while, although I’m not good with Flash either. I’m thinking something along the lines of The Philosophy of Liberty or Individualism vs Collectivism, but with more of an economic slant. Irwin Schiff’s comic How An Economy Grows could be a useful source of ideas for visual presentation and content.

How far along are you with a rough draft? I’d like to help if I can.

We’re not a subculture. We’re under no one. We’re radically different, so different, I don’t think one can argue that we’re in any way associated with mainstream economics.

If you try to relate Austrians to mainstream economists, it might go like this.

“So you have these mystics, these statistical charlatans, who worship power, and those are the economists. And then you have rational thinkers who seek a deeper understanding of human action through deductive reasoning, and those are the Austrians.”

It’s apples and oranges.

Thanks, I’ll be sure and make a point of using your specific thoughts in my paper!

Stylistically, how do you try to spread the message of A.S. economics? It’s always seemed to me that A.S. thinkers tend to actually want whoever is listening to them to understand how economics work. Everybody has their own style, how do YOU do it?

I’m always refining my tactics.

I come across an incorrigible person, then I wll argue with them for the audience. I realize that particularly online, you could have 500 people following a blog or forum post who never announce their readership or decide to participate. So there is an understanding that we’re performing for an audience, not just in a shouting match with our opposite.

I have been trying to listen more. Listening is important. Obviously, you have to understand the position of the person you are talking to but it’s also important to understand what is important to them. Maybe they are pro-labour. Maybe they are into the warfare state. Everyone is different.

As hard as it is for me, I have been trying to be nicer, and not let arguments become personal. When you tell someone that war is murder, then find out they have a relative who died in the service, they are naturally going to close themselves off to you, for obvious reasons including anger and disgust.

People are self-interested. You have to find out what interests them, and then communicate information that they will find valuable. Like all free market interactions, your success will depend on your ability to satisfy your trading partner while accomplishing your ends.

I think guilt and brow-beating are lousy approaches. Even if people are pro-murder, pro-theft, pro-socialism (do I repeat myself?) name calling or blame is not going to win me any new free market friends.

Ah. Belmont. I used to live in Brentwood. There are a few of my friends that go to Belmont, and I know a few libertarians around the area. Good to see more Tennesseeans on the forums.

It very much depends on who I am talking to. Most people are not interested in politics or economics. For these people, I try to use short, utilitarian arguments to grab attention (pointing out the benefits of free-market education, healthcare, police, courts, etc). If the person shows an interest I will bring in the ethical side, which is a form of argument people are not so used to, but which can be compelling. No other political economists can use coherent ethical arguments. Like if somebody objects to me advocating abolishing welfare, I will say “so you think it’s OK for the government to steal money from everybody to give it to people who don’t have a job?”

Talking about current economic events is also a good way of starting a conversation, and people are becoming increasingly interested in what I have to say. I am getting good at explaining the Austrian business cycle theory to a layman in under one minute.

If I’m speaking to someone with an economics degree (who invariably have not heard of the Austrian school, because their professors never mentioned them, so they must be wrong!), I talk to them about fundamentals and the epistemological basis of economics. How can they justify viewing human beings as purely subject to physical laws (i.e. lacking choice) - the prerequisite for empirical science? How is the objective theory of value even remotely true? How can inflation and the business cycle be caused by anything other than changes in the money supply?

If I’m speaking to a loyal political party member, I’ll point out the inadequacy of the Left-Right paradigm and how the major parties actually represent merely different forms of socialism. I’ll point out how any government is always bad - economically, ethically, and because they always tend towards totalitarianism. I’ll oppose anything anyone says in support of government action.

I’ll usually direct people to mises.org or my own website where I have created a short course in economics (here). I quite often send a follow-up email after discussing something with someone, with links, and invite them to have an email discussion with me so that they (and I) can more fully think through the arguments.

I find it easier to convert “athiests” (people with no economics degree nor interest in politics) but they tend to be less pro-active once converted on any one issue to learn more about the whole libertarian viewpoint. Keynesians and those who support a mainstream political party are far harder to convert, but do seem to do more research after they have been “hooked” - making months of endless debating pay off.

Anyway, I ramble - hope this helps!

@liberty student, @truth and liberty,

Thanks so much! This really helps a lot! I’m slowly trying to convert my economics professor. She gets this scared look on her face whenever I want to make a comment hahaha! I do try to be nice though. My preferred path is to ask a rhetorical question, and really just lots of sarcasm in general.

@revolutionist,

Brentwood is beautiful! I’m slowly converting some of my republican friends to the ways of libertarianism!

Socialism’s an equal opportunity wrecking machine.