Thanks for that. Similarly, I was wondering if I’d ever been on a socialistic camping trip.
Yes. Hence the incentive problem that is always prevalent in socialist theory.
Actually they’re right. If people weren’t selfish we’d all be dead or dirt ass poor.
I’ve actually used a similar story to illustrate democracy in action as well. I use this: “If there are 15 people in a room, and 8 of the people agree that they should point guns at the other 7 people and take their money, is that right?” Everybody always answers no, and then when I tell them thats what a demcoracy essentially is they stutter and stammer and usually change the subject.
Yeah, but that’s not what they “mean” by “profits.” How do you counter that?
Explain further.
They argue that being a worker means being exploited by the capitalist because the capitalist profits from their labor. So, the workers do not profit from laboring since they are being exploited.
Yes, the surplus labor theory. I’m still trying to figure out what you mean.
Following from what Giant Joe said, “Because it’s based on profits? Well if it’s wrong because it’s based on profits, isn’t working for pay also wrong.” Working for pay wouldn’t be wrong since the worker isn’t profiting.
Well money wouldn’t exist in a socialist society because that denotes exchange. So in a socialist society you could only work for the love of labor or altrustic values.
I think that what most socialists mean now is different from traditional socialism… I was listening to Hoppe explain that socialism became synonymous with the welfare state → food stamps, social security, etc.
I think the socialist’s real problem with profit is that it is excessive for employers, that they earn many times more what a laborer does simply because they own the factory. They would claim its not a merit based system.
Well, they wouldn’t get money wages, but they would still get paid. Their remuneration usually takes the form of labor tickets which can’t be exchanged and expire.
They never factor in risk.
Labor tickets are money. They are mediums of exchange. Labor = X amount of tickets. X amount of labor tickets = Good
They don’t even factor in non-contradiction.
Hehe i was just thinking about that.
I was also thinking about some of the socialist claims: that if we have a free market there will be a monopoly and this will be bad. So what is facebook? What is windows? Why doesn’t somebody just buy all the apartment complexes in a town and charge exorbitant rents? Why hasn’t coke bought out pepsi, RC cola or the others?
They can’t explain any part of reality. All they can do is be public school teachers and complain about capitalists oppressing them. The irony.
He’s absolutely right. What we have today is the outgrowth of social democracy, nothing like traditional socialism.
No I think it is ridiculous appeals to emotion with no understanding of how economics actually works. They still desire a utopian society where no labor is done and all rewards are achieved. Such a mentality always finds a home in the youth of a society.
I’m debating some Marxian economist. Read this nonsensical gem:
“First, value is not something that people see, touch, taste, or even think about. It is not a chemical or psychological element that can be found within an item or coming from independent valuation of an item. It is a social relation, i.e. something that exists on a higher plane than that of individual consciousness and control. Questions of valuation come in nowhere when individuals make exchanges, though questions of price necessarily do.”
Well if its not psychological then how do we perceive it without noticing it in our minds? Where is this coming from? Revleft?
it amazes me that some people can stand up.