I am looking for articles/books to read that would represent the best arguments that socialists have to offer for their position. Can anyone recommend a good, concise socialist resource?
I am familiar with marx’ arguments. I am looking for others.
I have not come across any clear arguments for socialism. I tried reading a book by Krugman, but he started by assuming the ideal of egalitarianism, without justification.
Thanks.
That’s because they don’t exist. [:)]
That’s because there is no justification. lol
The question becomes why? Do you want to be amused? Or learn the ‘enemies’ work? There are far better ways if that’s the case.
What kind of socialism? Are we talking about complete socialism, aka communism, or socialism in the general sense?
“WHAT ABOUT THE POOR?!!! WHAT ABOUT THE POOR?!! WHAT ABOUT THE POOR?!!!”
It seems to be the most common anyways.
Capitalism: don’t hurt people, don’t take their stuff.
Socialism: the alternative.
People usually make arguments for socialism because they benefit from it, or because they regard it as being stuck with it (what would old ladies on welfare do?). Another reason people support it is because that’s their psychological model. They think people in general are bad and need a punishing hand. But people in general are not bad, and certainly not from birth.
I came across this several times during the holidays. “Inequality is caused by greed.”
It’s so damn effective, at least for the average person. It’s vague. It uses a value judgement as a causal explaination. It’s more of a slogan than an argument.
Especially when you’ve been brought up with the statist’s version of US history, the ‘government can’ argument always flies.
Try G. A. Cohen’s work. He has criticises Nozick on self-ownership.
Socialism after Hayek is another one - talks about market socialism.
Thanks for the Cohen reference. I found this argument of his: because “socialism” is desireable on a camping trip, why not in society as a whole?
Yea Cohen is a smart guy. He also has a work called Marx’s Theory of History: A Defense. It is a good read. David Gordon has a work called Resurrecting Marx which covers Cohen and some other modern Marxists. I think the most influential socialists are what Marx called the ‘utopian socialists’ especially Robert Owen because he actually started the Labour party in Britain and also setup socialist communities. Henri de Saint-Simon is probably the second influential. He basically developed the idea of a planned economy.
G.A. Cohen on Mises Review
I thought of this email joke I received a while ago. I modified it to suit this post.
A $50 Lesson
I recently asked my friends’ little girl what she wanted to be when she grows up. She said she wanted to be President some day. Both of her parents, liberal Democrats (aka socialists), were standing there, so I asked her, 'If you were President what would be the first thing you would do? 'She replied, ‘I’d give food and houses to all the homeless people.’ Her parents beamed with pride.
‘Wow…what a worthy goal.’
I told her, 'But you don’t have to wait until you’re President to do that. You can come over to my house and mow the lawn, pull weeds, and sweep my yard, and I’ll pay you $50. Then I’ll take you over to the grocery store where the homeless guy hangs out, and you can give him the $50 to use toward food and a new house. She thought that over for a few seconds, then she looked me straight in the eye and asked 'Why doesn’t the homeless guy come over and do the work, and you can just pay him the $50? ’
'I said, ‘That’s how Socialism Works’
Her parents still aren’t speaking to me.
The ‘That’s how Socialism Works’ used to be ‘Welcome to the Republican Party.’, I changed it because I don’t believe the Republican party necessarily stands for capitalism or property rights either. Some Republicans are just as bad.
Er…you mean voluntary associations of people who are self organized?
Shouldn’t even the layman realize that people go on these kinds of camping trips within a capitalist framework? Its arguments like this that lead good natured people to support our collective slavery.
Or more traditionally a family.
I came across a banner sprawled over the second floor of dingy, tenuous house (office perhaps) that read in big, red letters:
Hilariously enough, it was in the butt end joke district of the city.
If you ever go to San Francisco, go to City Lights Bookstore. They have an anarchist section, though it is mostly the collectivist school. Anyways if you look on their front page you see their building and on the top floor in the windows they have all of this socialist propaganda. Things like ‘make oil a public utility.’ Lilburne works in San Fran so he can probably confirm this. It is where all the 1960’s hippies hung out. It’s really cool.
Most arguments I find for socialism are based around two main themes: capitalism causes horrible inequality and profit is inherently immoral. When I point out that government coercion is immoral, the typical response is that capitalism cannot be moral because its based on profits.
Because it’s based on profits? Well if it’s wrong because it’s based on profits, isn’t working for pay also wrong? 
William, I think the problem is that “best” is subjective. Do you want the most convincing arguments? Or do you want the most consistent (those with the fewest fallacies)? If the latter, then they don’t exist. If the former, well, then it depends. I would probably just find the most popular book read by people that like the ideas of socialism.
Socialism on a camping trip would be “desirable”? [:S] It’d be more like this:
I was hoping for the latter.