Don’t mind my odd lingo.
I’m curious to know how many people we have from the UK here.
I’m also curious to know what your experiences might be in debating with those from the UK.
I seem to only encounter people from the UK who are die-hard statists, and I’m wondering if I’m just incredibly unlucky, or if statism really is that trendy in the UK.
I live in the EU as well (in Poland, to be precise), and I think the statist mentality is only somewhat less strong over here than in the UK. While the average Pole does harbor some resentment regarding traffic regulations, taxes or IP laws, debating anything more “radical” than that (e.g., going easy on gun control or the war on drugs), and you’re bound to be thought of as utopist.
The general sentiment is that while it is OK not to follow the law by the letter in some cases, the democratic nanny-state is nonetheless needed on account of people being generally stupid and/or immoral.
From my personal experience the libertarian philosophy horrifies and baffles people, here, in the UK. In England you’ll find people are very receptive to the small government argument, but when it comes to more socio-moral issues, they’ll revert to their Puritanical heritage. Up north in Scotland, you could probably count the number of people with right-leaning views with one hand(!). Adam Smith is considered as a sort of aberration and there’s always a disclaimer that his ideas were interesting, but really just fantasy.
Scots now regard socialism as some romantic ideal which they have to uphold and protect because it ‘is as Scottish as haggis, bagpipes and tartan’. William Wallace, the ultimate Scots hero, has been transformed over the last fifty years into some sort of Maoist rebel who fought the evil English ‘capitalist class’. You ought to bear in mind that in this same society at present, out of its population of five million, only 100,000 do not claim government social security cheques (called benefits in the UK).…
I cannot speak for the tendencies in Northern Ireland or Wales, though maybe someone else will.
Also, certain programs like the National Health Service (NHS) are regarded with religious reverence and anyone who suggests reform is viewed with offended skepticism. English people are more likely to complain about the welfare system than a Scot might (since the English are paying for the Scots’ benefits). The Scot is more likely to complain that he isn’t getting enough benefit money!
As such, I’ve generally found that the people most immediately receptive to my libertarian/Austrian views are my Polish relatives who lived under, or had friends and relatives in, the Polish Communist state. Fellow Brits consistently level the ‘utopian dreamer’ charge at me, instead.
However, you can find libertarians scattered here and there in the UK – who will be typically under 30 years old. Anyone older seems to be an ardent Labour/Conservative statist, I’ve found. Here’s a brief summary of our most well known political parties for those outside the UK:
The Labour Party generally represent: Russian-style socialism. Tony Blair’s New Labour was an attempt to sell Labour’s ideology to the Conservative minded statist.
The Conservative Party generally represent: German (national socialist) socialism, now articulated by ‘our jolly good chum’ Dave Cameron. The 1980s was when the Conservatives embraced the pure libertarian message, but was quickly squelched by the more statist wing.
The Liberal-Democrats: Usually whatever the Labour party advocates, but with emphasis on looser socio-moral laws for the few remaining hippies in Cornwall and Brighton.
The UK Independence Party (UKIP): Whatever the Conservatives advocate, but with complete focus on leaving the EU.
The Monster Raving Loony Party: Advocates a quasi-libertarian message, but has aspirations to be a more ‘serious-minded’ statist party.
We do have a functioning Libertarian Party, too, but its message is ‘Liberty is a great idea on paper, but we’ll have to embrace Conservative national socialism in practice’ apparently.
I agree that our bonny Scotland is so militantly socialist nowadays it’s actually dangerous to admit any sort of right-leaning views. About the only safe place you can express them are the Borders – because it’s so anglicised (hence the only place in Scotland where the Conservatives dominate). And yes, the English are very devoted to private property rights (“An Englishman’s home is his castle…”) and the ideal of small-government, but they are still Puritans in everything else more or less. Just look at the constant ‘moral outrages’ in the tabloids.
As such, I think libertarianism would be hard sell in England and akin to a declaration of war in Scotland. It wouldn’t be impossible perhaps, but Britain doesn’t really have a strong libertarian cultural tradition to drawn upon anyway.
As for William Wallace and so on, these are my personal observations based from my reading and discussions with other Scots. My summaries of the Britain’s political parties might have been a bit too sweeping, but it gives the general idea of their styles of policy I think.
Ultimately, I like to think that should it get really bad here, there’s always Poland to go to. The number of relatives on the Polish side of my family is vast, and the country seems to appreciate Miseian ideals much more. We’ll see.
I found the comments made by the observations brutally true and dismaying. I say this as a member of the Libertarian Party UK for Scotland. Recently I had to argue the point of income taxation to those that felt that a reduction or slow swap would best serve the party and win over voters. It would seem the understandings of libertarianism are far and wide, allowing for light to moderate to firm.
The assertions regards Scotland’s state dependency and socialist ties are unfortunately rooted in history and to show such choices that would bring both liberties and prosperity seems the uphill struggle few are willing to move towards. Complacency therefore equates to compliance and praxeology of perceived benefits, lacking true understanding, brings a people into servitude to those that should requiring such from their elected representation.
Scotland Party Secretary