I am completely fed up. The subject of what a free society would look like and what is legitimate in one keeps coming up- see the are the forums representative of the LvMI- but in a completely unstuctured way which keeps going off topic and descends into mud throwing. To resolve this, partially at least, I’ve challenged Brainpolice, Juan and any other culturally leftist libertarian to formally debate Giles so we can se all the arguments in a structured form which keeps on topic. However they have at this point refused whereas Giles has always been willing to debate. Hence I’m resorting to starting this thread.
I propose, again, a formal debate with the motion " a free society would mostly be a manorial society". The debate would have Giles proposing and (fill in blank) opposing. As ever the burden of proof is the one the proposition. It would take the form of opening statements on either side. Then three rounds of rebuttal and then closing statements where any new information cannot be entered to the debate. There shall be no argument by link and no extensive quotes from any author and all quotes must be referenced.This way we can hopefully have a mature debate. A commentary thread will be created for others to comment on the debate thought the formal debate participants should not comment until the formal debate is over.
The above details can be worked out by the participants.
If for the third time no culturally leftist (if you don’t like the term fine but you know of whom I speak) is willing to debate then I will declare the manorialists, or similar, victors by default and you conclude your arguments hold as much water as a sieve.
Personally, I would find such a discussion to be very exciting. I find both sides that are being called out to be slightly mistaken at times but about different things. However, my take on this dispute is that it sounds like both sides end up talking past each other and rarely agree on definitions.
I borrowed the term from Spencer MacCallum, it is the economic/ political system of feudalism. Or, to put it another way, it is a system characterized by large multi tenant land ownings, of which feudalism is the coercive enforcement.
Fair enough. I assumed you coined it as you were originally using feudalism and then changed to manoralism to avoid confusion. I hadn’t heard it before though MacCullam is on my rather long reading list.
Well the subject would be manorialism. I think most on the board consider it legitimate in principle though BP has challenged it. Both issues are related obviously and I think my proposed debate would include both. Anyway the particulars of the debate, including the motion, will have to be agreed to by Giles and (fill in blank).
IMO, if there is a chance you will be declaring manoralists victorious you must know on what would you be declaring them victorious. The legitimacy or the likelihood.
I consider Brainpolice’s challenge very weak. As GilesStratton says, “I may be able to understand if one were to dispute their economic feasability but their legitimacy is not up for dispute”. It’s all about property rights, if you are accepted renting land in my property, you have to agree with my contract.
I think the issue here is what will the market output be. As I said in another post, I see a world in which manorialist and non-manorialist land arrangement can peacefully coexist and compete in a free market.
Its economic feasibility is another issue. I see that landlordism could be very profitable, but we should discuss how the diminishing returns law would apply here. It’s all up to competition I think, similar to Gaelic Ireland. And consider that competition will be tough here, those proprietors not engaged in a landlord-tenant relation could have advantages over those who are, encouraging landlords to improve their services.
I already made clear I am not a ‘cultural leftist’
I explained to you that I’m not interested in such ‘formal debate’
I’ll point out (again) that the ‘informal’ debate has been going on for months and that I see no substantial difference between a formal debate and an informal one.
If you guys are wondering, this is a spammer testing the board to see if he can leave anchored links and whether straight links get automatically hyperlinked.
If you see people making test posts like this, you should report them. The only reason why they are doing it is a prelude to spamming.
Manorialism traditionally refers to the economic system of feudalism (feudalism being only social/political), where people own land and let others live on it as long as they follow their own rules.