Contradictory Disney Lyrics

Miscellaneous General
1

Can you spot any logical fallacies?

Colors of the Wind, from Pocahontas:

You think I’m an ignorant savage
And you’ve been so many places
I guess it must be so
But still I cannot see
If the savage one is me
How can there be so much that you don’t know?
You don’t know …

You think you own whatever land you land on
The Earth is just a dead thing you can claim
But I know every rock and tree and creature
Has a life, has a spirit, has a name

You think the only people who are people
Are the people who look and think like you
But if you walk the footsteps of a stranger
You’ll learn things you never knew you never knew

Have you ever heard the wolf cry to the blue corn moon
Or asked the grinning bobcat why he grinned?
Can you sing with all the voices of the mountains?
Can you paint with all the colors of the wind?
Can you paint with all the colors of the wind?

Come run the hidden pine trails of the forest
Come taste the sunsweet berries of the Earth
Come roll in all the riches all around you
And for once, never wonder what they’re worth

The rainstorm and the river are my brothers
The heron and the otter are my friends
And we are all connected to each other
In a circle, in a hoop that never ends

How high will the sycamore grow?
If you cut it down, then you’ll never know
And you’ll never hear the wolf cry to the blue corn moon

For whether we are white or copper skinned
We need to sing with all the voices of the mountains
We need to paint with all the colors of the wind

You can own the Earth and still
All you’ll own is Earth until
You can paint with all the colors of the wind

2

First, I think it’s beautiful poetry.

OK, the fallacy is that although it may be true that

“every rock and tree and creature
Has a life, has a spirit, has a name”,

that does not mean they cannot be owned.

In fact he admits this later on, when he says

“You can own the Earth and still
All you’ll own is Earth until
You can paint with all the colors of the wind.”

There is another little thing, that having so many people living happily on the planet requires a lot of work, which will only happen if people own things.

3

The part I found funny was when it said “Come roll in all the riches all around you, and never once ever wonder what they’re worth.” Isn’t the entire song about the subjective values of the singer being so amazing?

4

I think it is about you value the wind, for breath, cool breezes, and in the expression of ideas, but you cannot paint the colors of it. Not every value is material.

At least that is what I got from it.

5

“You think I’m an ignorant savage”-She proves later she is pretty ignorant.

“But I know every rock and tree and creature
Has a life, has a spirit, has a name”-Rocks don’t have life. As for these things having spirits, it’s not something one can know.

“Or asked the grinning bobcat why he grinned?
Can you sing with all the voices of the mountains?
Can you paint with all the colors of the wind?
Can you paint with all the colors of the wind?”-None of this is possible.

“Come run the hidden pine trails of the forest
Come taste the sunsweet berries of the Earth
Come roll in all the riches all around you
And for once, never wonder what they’re worth”-She fails to acknowledge that exchange value and personal value are not inherently different because exchange value is acquired in order to meet personal needs.

“The rainstorm and the river are my brothers
The heron and the otter are my friends
And we are all connected to each other
In a circle, in a hoop that never ends”-Pocahontas previously rejects being a savage, yet she relates herself to unintelligible precipitation. Was Pocahontas birthed by a cloud? I think not.

“How high will the sycamore grow?
If you cut it down, then you’ll never know
And you’ll never hear the wolf cry to the blue corn moon”-What? What exactly is the relationship between cutting down a sycamore and hearing a wolf cry to the blue corn moon? That’s like Bill Gates saying: “If you don’t invest in Microsoft, you’ll get AIDS.”

“For whether we are white or copper skinned
We need to sing with all the voices of the mountains
We need to paint with all the colors of the wind”-Apparently she doesn’t believe in free will. Also, once again these things aren’t possible.

“You can own the Earth and still
All you’ll own is Earth until
You can paint with all the colors of the wind”-Apparently he does want to own the Earth so her argument isn’t convincing.

6

LOL. Well she could have been more precise and said

"Come roll in all the riches all around you,

and never once ever wonder

what their present market value is

in dollars

as reported in the barchart.com website

on the commodities page", but the song would lose a bit, I think.

7
8

Poetry, lyrics, expressionism, music, animated art… if you want logic or legal theory read Wittgenstein or de Jasey, you’re in the wrong market.

9

Yes and no. Because propaganda wrapped up in poetry, lyrics, expressionism, music, and animated art is very powerfull, and could easily convince the masses to protect endangered species [which winds up utterly wiping the species out] and other horrible travesties imposed on mankind in the name of protecting the environment.

So it is a worthwhile exercise to spot the fallacies, if any, being pushed by poetry etc.

10

Its also just plain false to say that the Indians had no concept of property or ownership…

11

Yes, yes, metaphors and personification are wonderful ways to make things seem more important than they are, but I believe the goal was logical analysis. I’m glad you enjoyed it because I like to be as literal as possible sometimes just to see how people equate literal interpretation with sarcasm. Funny how that works, isn’t it?

As for free will, Pocahontas empasizes a collective force via the words “we need” as opposed to a proposition of voluntary participation. She’s just as bad as the IRS in this sense, but she doesn’t exactly have the buying power to create her hippy utopia. Although you do make a good point, because I don’t 100% believe in free will, either.

“If we will give her the benefit of the doubt, she is trying to get him to stop seeing things through the dollar sign spectacles of Scrooge McDuck, and appreciate these wonders for themselves, not for the coinage that can be obtained for them.”

This just plain crosses the line. Scrooge McDuck is not only a genius entrepreneur, but a loving and caring uncle as well. Not only does he treasure his treasures, but he has just as much appreciation for everyday life as Miss Pocahontas herself. And he’s less pessimistic to boot. I obviously have a problem with anyone who thinks profit-seekers are the scum of the Earth. Money flows freely throughout civilization because of these people. Disney’s propaganda surely has influence on the modern liberal “feelings” of youth, the one-dimensional thinking of which disturbs me greatly. Sure it’s great to have personal connections with nature, but inhibiting growth to do so is not necessary and it only leads to poverty and primitive tribal life.

Although if my Guy Fawkes avatar were to become self-aware and observe the website he lives in, he would be quite certain he wasn’t speaking to any social collectivist hippy.

12

Great stuff, resist.

  1. To continue in the same vein, I beg to differ with your interpretation of “we need.”

The lovely Pocahontas is not saying that some inner impulse is forcing us all to sing with all the voices of the mountains, else why the need to harp on something that will happen by itself?

Nor is she saying that if it were up to her she would forcibly make everyone paint with all the colors of the wind, for that is not possible. It is like yelling at someone to be spontaneous.

What she means by “we need” is but an emotional appeal to our better side, trying passionately to convince us to voluntarily pick up our paint boxes.

  1. I am glad to hear that Mr McDuck’s life is well rounded and family oriented. My apologies for implying otherwise.

  2. I agree with all you say about the libels cast on profit seekers. I wish to defend Miss Pocahontas, however, and say that too much of a good thing [thinking about profits] is a bad thing [an atrpohy of the soul]. She is merely trying to open us up to all aspects of an encounter with nature, the better to enjoy life.

13

“Here I sit in this big lonely dump, waiting for Christmas to pass! Bah! That silly season when everybody loves everybody else! A curse on it! Me—I’m different! Everybody hates me, and I hate everybody!”

Foola Zoola, an old African sorcerer and chief of the Voodoo tribe who had cursed Scrooge, seeking revenge for the destruction of his village and the taking of his tribe’s lands by Scrooge decades ago. Scrooge privately admitted to his nephews that he had used an army of “cutthroats” to get the tribe to abandon their lands, in order to establish a diamond-mining colony

As Scrooge explains, he intended to give them a higher offer, but he just could not resist having somebody at his mercy without taking advantage of it.

As a businessman, Scrooge often resorts to aggressive tactics and deception. He seems to have gained significant experience in manipulating people and events towards his own ends

Scrooge has a nasty temper and rarely hesitates to use violence against those who provoke his anger

Scrooge isn’t a bad guy; he’s usually honest, and a great father-figure to his nephews. But I would in no way call him a good person either.

14

Its also just plain false to say that the Indians had no concept of property or ownership…

True. There also simply weren’t a lot of people for much of human history. More space, less conflicts, less explicit property rights needed.

15

Disney has been trash since the man himself. Pure hollow trash and it is all the same from one to the next.

16

I have to disagree, there have been some good Disney movies…their Pixar films in particular have been mostly fantastic(except maybe Wall-E, which I really didnt like).

Also Kingdom Hearts is an amazing game series. ALthough that might have more to do with Square-Enix than Disney

17

their Pixar films in particular have been mostly fantastic

While I agree, I still prefer hand drawn animation far more than computer animation. I wish the Pixar team would do a few hand drawn films.