This is going around the facebook. My oh my what would we ever do without the great god government!
I’d have used someone else’s road if you’d just let them build it, lady.
Damn I saw that too. It’s amazing how fast this shit gets around. I just had my first encounter with the “forgive student loans” petition too. I guess all you have to do is say something pro-state and people just eat it up. Someone on facebook just said:
“Yes. We need education to get jobs - so forgiving the student loans would help the economy. People could use the income they save to “pump” into the economy. I know it would be a huge burden off my shoulders and you bet I would be able to buy a car sooner, or a house, instead of being buried in debt for a degree I basically have to have to work in this country.”
…right before she posted the Idiot Warren photo.
I like that one. Here’s another:
This sounds really familiar. It reminds me of a story I heard about a guy who took a crowbar and broke another guy’s leg. Then he handed the man a crutch and said “See. Without me, you wouldn’t be able to walk. You owe me big time.”
and
They pay it forward by giving people jobs.
Also, let’s ask Gibson Guitars about marauding bands coming to sieze everything at their factory…
That video demolishes her exact arguement. The best part is the statist in the video reaches the exact conclusion as the statist that brought the warren piece to my attention.
To Miss Warren: If I washed your car without your permission are you obligated to pay me? Your argument is that the dumb government dishes freebies and then tries to claim it is owed ex post facto. Shame. It’s not my fault your government is a sucker.
Ms. Warren is espousing a contradictory and dangerous philosophy. Firstly, that government is organized in order for people to accomplish common goals. Secondly, that government is owed something for doing those things. This also assumes that a “government” is some concrete entity that can be owed anything rather than being what it is, a group of self-interested individuals.
the moment i saw that posted on r/pics on Reddit, i knew it would fly around on Facebook. way too much groupthink going on, very little self-reflection.
I believe it to be an absolute caricature to say the other side’s argument is that people “got rich on their own”. That is, in fact, so untrue, i.e. a lie, that only true believers could possibly buy it.
“You didn’t have to worry that marauding bands would come and seize everything at your factory”
The hell I didn’t. What do you call the IRS? Seriously. (I propose Immoral Raider System)
A simple reply is that markets take the opportunities presented. If someone (government) is stealing my money (taxes) and then offering me goods, I’ll damn right take them. Similarly, if government offers a business $1 million for free, they’ll take it. It makes logical sense.
Warren makes the assumption that because someone offers you something, you are now indebted to them. For example, if I let Warren borrow my car and loan her a few grand here and there for 0 interest willingly, she suddenly owes me something and I may use force to acquire this thing.
Let me break it down into an timeline:
-
There are no public roads in the “government public” sense. People live.
-
Government says “hey, we’ll tax you and make roads”
-
Government makes roads and businesses use them
-
Government: “YOU OWE US FOR THE ROADS”
Actual logical conclusion: No dammit, you should’ve left us our money in the first place. It’s not like government is this benevolent being which furnishes us with its own savings along with a gentle reminder to help it when it’s in trouble. No, government furnishes us with our own money and we praise it for it.
I am highly considering making a rebuttal in the same format as the original, countering it point by point.
I wish the chick in the video didn’t imply that the only way to be protected is to protect yourself. She even concedes that fire protection can be performed competitively and paid for voluntarily…but she claims “it is your responsibility to watch out for yourself and those around you if you see them being harmed.”
That kills it for me. It’s too easy to say “that’s all just crazy talk”. We have enough of an uphill battle as it is. We can’t afford to be giving half-assed representations and explanations of libertarian philosophy and prescriptions. It’s a shame, but I can’t send that video to anyone.
http://www.thefreemanonline.org/columns/tgif/elizabeth-warrens-non-sequitur/
This artile does an exellent job of debunking her crazy ideas.
Awesome. Thank you so much
Lol, found this on Reddit…
Now what’s something clever we can call that? The Warren pic is from “The Other 98%” page on facebook.
An edited version of Warren’s speech:
http://pajamasmedia.com/instapundit/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/WARRENRESPONSE.png
UPDATE: A reader sends this response:
Group of friends of Stanford football post on a board called thebootleg.com On the current events board, we have debated the Warren comments. here was my response:
“You built a factory out there? Good for you,”
“Built a factory” is a summary for a lot of work. Put up equity, designed a business, took risk to buy land, get permits, pay property taxes and use taxes and permit fees. Then, bought a bunch of equipment and had it installed …and paid sales taxes. Hired some employees and paid them a bunch of money and paid payroll taxes on top of that. Bought a bunch of raw materials from companies that paid a bunch of salaries and a bunch of taxes. Building a factory is a huge private investment that pays the public a lot of taxes for the right to be built.
“But I want to be clear: you moved your goods to market on the roads the rest of us paid for.”
Between fuel taxes, license fees, tolls and various taxes on transportation related activities, the roads budget is smaller than the total tax take.
" you hired workers the rest of us paid to educate"
No, you did not educate them. You babysat them for 12 years. Then I hired them, taught them how to be responsible and show up for work, taught them how to communicate in clear sentences, taught them that there are rights and wrongs and (unlike with your schools) wrongs have consequences in the workplace. Then paid for extended education for my employees so they could continue to improve themselves and better add value to what we do around here.
“You were safe in your factory because of police forces and fire forces that the rest of us paid for.”
Funny, my factory has 24/7 security guards because the last time it was broken into, the police did not even bother to take a report, they just said “call your insurance company”. As for fire? The closest fire department is 10 miles away. My insurance company requires that I have a full wet sprinkler system to qualify for insurance because there is no local fire protection.
“You didn’t have to worry that marauding bands would come and seize everything at your factory, and hire someone to protect against this, because of the work the rest of us did.”
Well, that is not exactly true. When the AFL-CIO tried to unionize my workforce, they staged three days of noisy protests outside my factory. The police forces just stood around and watched as the protesters intimidated my workers, vandalized their cars and destroyed my property.
You say “we” like the government and society are the same. They aren’t. My company and my community and you politicians are not “we”.
she has it backwards - we need the businesses and the people they employee to pay the taxes to build the roads BEFORE they are used.
more simply;
who pays the taxes that build the roads, schools etc..etc..
That was really good chakra. I would just add one more thing…
Wait…are you suggesting I didn’t pay for any of that stuff? And what do you mean “the rest of us”? Last time I checked, the top 20% paid almost 70% of ALL federal taxes.
And it gets even better when you look at just income tax:
If anything it should be ME who’s saying I paid for all the crap you use. AND I gave you a job.
Little do we know that exactly that is the argument for crony capitalism… >.>