Yeah. I didn’t mean to sound like I meant all terrorism. I just don’t understand why planes have all of the security instead of buses, or any big building in particular. I feel the same amount of nervousness going onto an airplane (due to terrorism) as I do anything else, which isn’t much. The only person I really trust to protect my best interests is me, so I love the idea of being able to bring a knife on board. I think that alone would act as an extraordinary deterrent on flights.
They are squashing you like a bug when you don’t resist. You’re letting them win without having to get their hands dirty.
Free markets are antithetical to special privileges. Even if everyone believes that a free market is best for society, they still act in their own narrow self interest by seeking out special privileges for themselves.
So the “tell the truth” option is to be selfless and support free markets, which is the best overall outcome
The “defect” option is to let everyone else try and provide free markets, while seeking to carve out a nich of privilege for yourself. If everyone takes this option, provision of markets will fail.
This makes it extremely unlikely that we can provide markets via mass action. They will arise spontaneously or not at all.
I expect much better reasoning from you.
“The only person I really trust to protect my best interests is me, so I love the idea of being able to bring a knife on board. I think that alone would act as an extraordinary deterrent on flights.”
Agreed 100% on this. I work in a very large city building that does not allow guns or weapons of any kind. It is privately owned but I’m sure there’s some kind of local ordinance that is influencing them to do such a straight ban. The only ones who have guns is the security – and not even all of them are armed. If someone got inside with a gun, he/she could do a LOT of damage before security got there – so many people and so many hiding places. I would bring my own gun if I could, but I like my job, so…
There’s also the matter of bringing it onto one of the public buses that I (very unfortunately) take – and the drivers don’t carry guns. Sounds like a terrible situation waiting to happen.
To relate this to the thread topic…how likely would it be that a terrorist/piece of human garbage would hijack mass transit if they knew anyone could easily stop them? Are there any laissez-faire weapons rules for mass transit systems that we could use as an examples?
Its a variant of Patri Friedman’s reasoning for seasteads. Free markets can be provided via mass action if people are selfless/charitable… if we can get people deontologically comitted to the NAP then fine. But we have a difficult time appealing to people’s self interest.
I’m open to suggestions. I just don’t want to be detained over it.
I would personally not go. I make sacrifices for my beliefs. I can live with those choices. It wasn’t easy at first, but it gets easier all the time. I won’t crawl on my belly to maintain the illusion of any freedom. The state can crush me at any time. My submission doesn’t prevent that outcome. It empowers the state further to be able to do so. Every submission is a virtual prison cell. People build prisons around their own minds out of fear.
I’m not into violent resistance, so I allow the state to fence me in where they can, and I run free where they cannot/do not. It’s not a perfect solution, but I am not a utopian. It is important to me to be able to look at myself in the mirror. I can’t do that if I allow people to molest and humilate me.
My family knows better than to expect me to compromise my values. They would never ask me to do something that I was not comfortable with.
I’m the exception to Sieben’s [sic] market failure. I don’t care about changing the system, I care most about my own dignity. My value scale doesn’t match the prisoner’s dilemma.
The fact that you feel this way about the TSA and government in general, shows that you have already won. The entire surveillance-state is an attempt to by the government to control us: our actions, our lifestyles, and ultimately our beliefs. I don’t think the choice they give you is completely illusory. By “standing up to them” and choosing groping, you are making a statement to them and everyone watching that your mind remains free and they cannot truly control you. I think choosing groping is a huge act of protest, if the TSA had real power (I mean like legitimate voluntary support) everyone would do as they’re told and go through the scanners.
Don’t feel defeated that you are choosing to get groped by TSA agents; you can have pride that while the state may control your actions, they have spectacularly failed to control your thoughts.
I wish my family wouldn’t expect me to compromise my values either, but they got all pissed off when I explained to them that I probably would end up not being able to fly if they randomly chose me. If I had a kid and he protested it, I’d be proud of him. I don’t understand their thoughts.
Putting that Good Will Hunting conversation actually made me feel better. So you think I should actually go through the groping process as an act of protest and not simply go through the scanner? I feel like it would be a bit of a protest, but I don’t know if that’s enough. I want to shout out, “Hey, everyone! Watch the TSA grope me for no reason!” and humiliate those people doing it because it’s not really embarrassing to me. I just want to do more.
Go, don’t smile, look down, nod, appear servile. Then behind their backs spit in their sandwitch and sign them up for spam e-mail.
Just going through the pat down is a pretty big act of protect. According to some things I’ve read about the pat down, the TSA agents yell ”opt out” really loud and most everyone in the area can see it that you’ve made the decision.
One thing you could do while standing in line is tell the people around you that you’re planning on choosing groping “because that’s how I know I live in a free country.”
Remember the most pathetic part of this whole process is the TSA agents who have are committing these atrocities.
^I’m going to do that.
Wear a kilt, in the traditional manner.
What about locating charter flight services from a local municipal airport? It is another option.
The flight school I am attending is also a fixed base operator (FBO) at the airport. People use the services of chartered flight services all the time, boarding the planes through the FBO. They even offer rental car service for people arriving at the airport, and storage for vehicles for those departing from it who are local residents.
Biggest convenience: There’s no TSA screening, no groping, no back-scatter machines that show “soft” nude photos.
If enough people avoid air travel and make it known that the reason for their decision is the TSA, then it puts pressure on the airlines and airports to opt out of the legislation that put TSA in there in the first place. After two years from when the legislation was put into effect (2001), airports have had the choice of opting out. The market solution is to not buy the service of air travel and find some other means of transportation.
TSA is a total farce. Time to send it back to the scrap heap of seriously bad ideas.
In your personal situation it all depends on when you’re traveling. If you’re traveling on the 24th, get ready for very long delays. There is a movement afoot to have everyone opt out of the new screening system. I think it’s going to get ugly as more than a few people are going to make an individual stand. If they are smart, they should sue the airports for their use of an unqualified goon squad, citing the 2001 legislation as evidence for their negligence - that being failure to provide real security rather than “Security Theater”.
The guy from Oceanside, CA, “if you touch my junk I’ll have you arrested”, is now being investigated by the TSA and is likely to get fined $11,000 for not cooperating and leaving the security area without permission. The TSA claims you gave up your rights when you bought your ticket, and when you enter the screening area you have to do whatever they want you to do.
If I were you I’d find another way to get to where you’re going. I’d advise your parents to demand a refund for the flight, explaining the reason for not flying.
Brian,
Well, it just depends on what your objectives are really. Myself, I would prefer to drive, if that is an option. If not, then I would probably do the full body scan, as opposed to the body search. Unless you want to get on the news, then you could take a recording device, and refuse both and help spread the word. Of course, they won’t let you board the plane in that case. So it really just depends on how much you want to see your parents and save $400.
UCSF has a report that says the body scanners pose potential health hazards. TSA employees haven’t been allowed to use dosimeters for a reason.
I think the health issue should be the focus instead of the enhanced pat downs. Complaining about the new intrusive pat downs plays right into their hand because people will just wanna go through the x-ray machine; which was the whole point of the new procedure!
I don’t know how to go about taking a charter flight. Is there a website to locate them?
I think I am gonna do that. And if they asked why, I’ll just be like, “Cause fuck them, that’s why.”
I wouldn’t go through X-ray machines for health reasons. Sadly, most of the female agents are unattractive.
If they were attractive, they’d be working for an escort service and doing the same exact thing.
Haha, should I ask the TSA agent if I can pat him down beforehand to make sure he doesn’t plant anything on me?