Help me define Socialism and Capitalism from my life experiences.

I was born in Cuba, fortunately came to America at age 16 in 2000. Here I got my BS Economics and my MBA in Finance. After living the horrors of Castro’s communism and after living in US Capitalism, I still have difficulties identifying (in my opinion) the best economic system.

I know what is like to have good health care and awesome education, but I also know how hard it is to be told what to do like a slave.

So…here in America I have got lots of opportunities and many freedoms, however… I am worry for my children’s education and healthcare. With all respect, education from 1-12 grades sucks in America. Even if I am able to buy the best insurance for my children, sometimes the insurance company won’t pay a thing.

Then I ask myself…isn’t it possible to have economic/political freedom and at the same to enjoy a great education and health care system???

When I ask that question to people, they call me a socialist (something extremely offensive to call a Cuban).

In the USA, education and health care are socialized. It is precisely economic freedom that would make education and health care better than it is right now.

Than tell me this…for over 50 years Castro’s regime has been able to give a better health care and education system than the US. How can a little, poor, insignificant and COMMUNIST island can provide for them, better than the mighty US.

“Better” in which regards? Accessibility, quality, quantity?

If, for example, Cuba’s health care system is much superior to the one in the US, why do people regularly fly to the US for complicated surgery and not to Cuba?

Proof? This sounds highly contentious.

-Jon

It used to better in accessibility, quantity and overall quality. My friend no people from cuba fly over the US to get complicated surgery. That is a very false statement and I can prove it. On the other hand Cubans do fly to the US to stay for a better life.

As you know, the healthcare system in the United States is a very complex beast and I doubt it can be summed up in a single sentence or perhaps even a paragraph. However, your statement that :

“Castro’s regime has been able to give a better health care and education system than the US.”

does not qualify ‘better’ with specific facts. Until it is known ‘how’ and in ‘what way’ the Cuban system is ‘better’, a discussion cannot begin. I cannot argue for nor against assertions. I am not saying you are wrong in your assessment, I’m simply saying we need a comparison of facts in order for me to accept your assertion as valid.

Once we have established whether or not the Cuban system is better, we can then answer how it was achieved. However, I think the size of a nation has nothing to do with the quality of its citizen’s lives. Do not assume that because the United States is larger, that it should have better healthcare and education.

Furthermore, debating which education system is more effective is a moot point since the two are both state operated enterprises. I am against the United States education monopoly because it is coercive and limits choice. In a free market education system, students would seek out the schools that best suit their needs. Inefficient schools would be removed, bad teachers would have to find another line of work, and wasteful spending would be impossible without consquence. We have socialized education already

I appreciate your experience with the Cuban and American health systems as I personally have only dealth with American healthcare and would like to know more.

If we take it so your way…so philosophical then nothing can be proven. Anyways…the topic is not about Castro’s healthcare and education system. The topic is about Socialism and Capitalism. Both my friend are extremes to me. I kind of like more the middle ground based on my life experiences. I also said I have BS in Economics. I have read a lot about the topic, trust me, but go back to underlined question in my first post and answer it according to your best opinion.

I thank you for participating.

Cuban health care may provide quality service, but keeping in mind the level of taxation in Cuba they probably come at a very steep price,

The best economic system is the only economic system that efficiently allocates scarce resources to create the most desired products and services at the cheapest prices that technology can provide. That is Laissez-Faire capitalism, all others allocate resources according to the dictates of a third part bureaucracy and are therefore not efficient. The US does not have a political-economy resembling Laissez-Faire capitalism.

To provide you with the “BEST” of a product, you must first give your criteria for BEST.

If you mean best health care system is that a third party pays for any and all health care expenses then you probably do not consider the semi-socialized system in the US the best. If you define best as delivering the best level of technology then you would probably define the US as having the best system.

You do not need to do this for education as education is mostly socialized in the US at least in the K-12 levels. This is why we need technical schools and colleges to train folks who were properly trained to begin with.

My opinion is that when government offers financial security then you always get poorer as it diverts resources used for other means to the provision of this security. In the cases of health care and education that the government steals from consumers who would rather use their resources to satisfy something else other than the needs of education and health care.

In the case of health care it literally sacrifices whole industries in pharmaceuticals and medical equipment to provide this security.

Cesar, if liberty means anything to you, then you have to chose capitalism.

If you don’t care if you are free, or if your children can be free, then you can choose socialism.

Maybe I am different, but I would prefer to be free and make my own future, than to be a slave and thrive off the theft of others.

Very well said my friend. I could not agree more with you. My question arised from my desire to have the good things from both systems at the same time. Maybe that is not possible (but I think it is), buy hey…if you look at it from my life experiense, you would love to have it.

My father, cuban by birth is a German. I would say Germany is very close to the middle ground between socialism and capitalism that I have been talking about.

What is “philosophical” about his post? Even if it were “philosophical”, how does that imply nothing can be proven? You specifically claimed Castro’s healthcare is better than the US’s, now you’re refusing to provide evidence to back this contentious claim. You also ignore that the US’s education and healthcare are provided in a socialized manner. There is no “extreme” of capitalism to speak of, not that “extremes” are bad of course.

-Jon

Jon Irenicus:

I can prove Castro’s Education and Health care system is a lot better. At least it used to be so until late 1990’s. Anyone who knew how communist countries work, is smart enough to know that they do a lot of work in the Education and Health care industries, in cases (like in the US) doing a lot better than capitalist countries.

Oh yes, like the Glorious Worker’s Paradise of the Soviet Union, which would wheel out dying patient to the street so they wouldn’t die in the hospital, giving a better mortality rate.

The question is not what country has the best health care or education. That is like asking what is the best car between a Mercedes and a Ford. It has no economic meaning.

The question should be, is the health care and education in socialist countries worth the things that have to be given up? Is it better to have bad education but a wealthy life later on? This is the kind of choice that socialists do not allow you to make.

Then do so. The US is not capitalist regarding healthcare, though. It is a hampered market economy, as is nearly every Western nation…

-Jon

And as a native German living there, I have to confess that people are indeed quite well off here - not, however, because we have found such a great “balance” between two systems, but because private sector innovation and production still slightly outweighs the mismanagement of our various government control schemes.

Most areas in the German economy are highly regulated and you’ll find countless barriers to entry. It’s insanely expensive to hire craftsmen for fixing your home, getting a driver’s license is likely to cost you 1500 to 2000 euros and all the great “social achievements”, like mandatory health and unemployment insurance, that are being praised in the compulsory public schools (by the way, homeschooling gets you arrested around here - a little relic from the Hitler era nobody intends to abolish) become more expensive and of less quality each year.

Gasoline taxes are about 80 to 90 cents per litre. The overall tax rate for average income families is about 50%. And don’t forget the peacetime draft every male citizen enjoys so much.

If it hadn’t been for the electronic revolution in the 80s and 90s that is still largely free of any government intervention, I suppose all the “third way” welfare states of Europe would be in a steep downwards slide instead of barely holding their position as they do right now.

Beautiful words. Thank you.

I also have a friend from Sweden who thinks like you. I understand. But all those things you mentioned, are the things that I, as well as my father and many others…praise.