You sure opened up a bag of worms with that statement. You said, “I think”, but then mention how you can’t see “how anyone could argue all cultures are equal” in the context of “any western industrial culture is superior…”. I really hope that’s simply your opinion, because I don’t see how it could be otherwise.
My friend, I understand why you would pick Minnesota, after all it does have a good white people ratio, but here is where my superior logic comes to play:
Minnesota is one step away from Canada, which is one step away from French Canada, which is one step away from France, which is…well, France. It’s the Zeppo Marx of Western Europe which is the worst Marx other than Karl Marx. Not only that, but many of the Europeans in MINN of Scandanavian decent, who are, let’s face it, a bunch of pinkos.
Ohio on the other hand has a good Catholic background, and more importantly a nice strong Prussian background as well.
So there you have it Minnesota= Marx and a bunch of other pinkos, Ohio= Austrian.
Whoops, I read your post a little too late. You are correct. If I did not correctly read the poster, my apologies to him.
Here. Quote:
Since the fall of Siad Barre’s government in January 1991 , there has been no permanent national government in Somalia[3] until the current Transitional Federal Government. Large areas of the country such as Puntland, Awdal[4] and Galmudug are internationally unrecognized autonomous regions, while Somaliland is a de facto sovereign state. The remaining areas, including the capital Mogadishu, were divided into smaller territories ruled by competing warlords. In many areas there were (and still are) no formal regulations or licensing requirements for businesses and individuals.
Somalia is currently claimed as the sovereign territory of the Transitional Federal Government, internationally recognized as the Government of Somalia. Before December 2006, the TFG controlled only the town of Baidoa, the third largest city.[3] The intervention of Ethiopian government forces following the rise of the Islamic Courts Union, culminating in the latter’s defeat in the Battle of Baidoa, allowed the TFG to expand its control under the protection of the Ethiopians. The TFG has not been able to effectively collect taxes, has no notable finances or real power base,[5] and has struggled to exert control over Mogadishu since an attempted move in late December 2006.[3] However, the TFG has since been able to take most of Somalia, and is struggling to cement its control and establish law and order. [Emphasis Added]
Somalia is in a de facto state of anarchy - the last sentence in the quoted paragraph is wildly inaccurate. The TFG, al-Shabaab, Hizbul Islam (and other groups both foreign and domestic) are battling over Mogadishu, Kasmayo and other regions in southern Somalia. Northern Somalia (Somaliland, Puntland, etc.) is not affected by this fighting, to my knowledge. The fighting began in earnest back in 2006 when Ethiopia began an offensive into Somalia and has been raging ever since. The attempt to paint this out as the “rise of al-Qaeda in Somalia” and to pain Somalia as a lawless safe-heaven for “international terrorist organizations” is just propaganda by Western intelligence agencies manufactured for consumption by the Western public. The same is true of the myth that Afghanistan is a lawless wasteland filled with a bunch of warring tribes. Both Afghanistan and Somalia are regions where tribal law is ancient and firmly built into the culture in spite of a long history of Western interference in their affairs, with horrifically tragic consequences. The war on Afghanistan and the upcoming war on Somalia are, IMO, part of a larger strategy connected to the OECD and the need to “close the loopholes” in the international monetary system. One of the regional money-transfer centers in my region (NW USA) which handled money wires to Somalia through the Hawala system was closed down by the FBI for “terrorist connections” which is a bunch of garbage. The reality is that there is a global war on “tax havens” underway and anarchies are the ultmate tax haven. You can always apply pressure to nation states. Just look how Switzerland folded like a house of cards, coughing up supposedly “secret” records on 14,000 US citizens to the IRS. There’s no way to pressure anarchies like Somalia or Afghanistan because nobody living there gives a shit about your tax policies or the “sanctions” you might place on them for failing to play ball with the OECD.
</disjointed rant>
Clayton -
I always say I think.I guess I should be more precise in what I say.
I think it’s possible I was vague and I’ve been misunderstood.
I wasn’t referring to a culture’s art or architecture or food etc.I don’t believe in such a thing as “objective aesthetics”.
What I meant is that you can judge cultures based on a number of things.
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Morality- some cultures may condone child beating or rape or violence for example .Surely those cultures are lesser than ones which do not condone those things.
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**How the culture accords with what we know about society and humans in general -**e.g. a culture which is opposed to private property is lesser in that respect than one which is supportive of it ,even if the culture is not consistent in that support.Also whether a culture favours rationality to some degree or whether it favours uncritical thought to some degree.
Again I don’t think any culture is perfect and probably never will be.
Even after I made my post to you, I figured because in an even earlier post you said it was your opinion.
true. Though I admit “child beating” is a bit vague, but that’s doesn’t mean it’s necessary to argue over the semantics of what you’re saying in this instance at this moment. I get the jist of what you’re saying and agree.
As an economic argument I think you have a valid point here.
All people rationalize, and develop critical thoughts around their rationalizations. But again, I think I get the jist of what you’re trying to point out here, and I don’t think this can be effectively argued in any cardinal or objective way, but if you’re still going along with your opinion in this instance then nobody can intellectually argue against you, but may appeal to your aesthestics, “Nah, Russia is better because of the color upon their building in la-dalke.”, "No my good sir, Afghanistan is because their tradition is blah, blah, blah’.
ClaytonB,
I enjoy your knowledge on that region. Good post.
I also think Yemen might be in the scope of western powers, the missile strike there might not have been the last and Yemen is right across from Somalia.
There isn’t a culture which would be opposed to private property. There are only cultures where the concept of private property is not jet as refined due to in primitive conditions scarcity being felt in relation to much fewer things.
And do you base your claim of superiority of American and western culture on this? How do you judge this, by results? It would seem western culture gave us Karl Marx and the Holocaust. And it would seem American culture is highly compatible with messianic policing of the world. Where exactly does its superior morality manifests?
I’d say that Western culture is the most superior because it is based on Christian values (I am saying this as an atheist).
It is not the only culture encompassing Christianity. So what makes the culture of westerners superior to that of other Christians?
I am talking about the Christianity of Aquinas and Augustine. How many Eastern Christian philosophers can you name?
I am not into philosophy. I couldn’t name you a “Western Christian” philosopher either.
In any case, what I am saying does not hinge on “Eastern Christianity”. “Western Christianity” is far wider than Western culture. How does your explanation work for superiority of the West over Latin America, Sub-Saharan Africa, Korea, Philippines and the Catholic/Protestant part of Eastern Europe?
Augustine, the supporter of proto-Inquisition tactics such as the killings of the Donatists, ie. the name derived from Donatus Magnus.
Thank you. But I am still not sure I would classify it as anarchy. What does the TFG control? What powers do they have? If they have power, then it would seem to me that they are a governing body.
If you call Augustine a Western Christian “philosopher” and then can not name a single “Eastern Christian philosopher” you are just confirming your lack of knowledge of Christianity. There are a plethora of Christian philosopher “from the east”, more so than the west.
Why? I have a hunch this is one libertarian theorist’s thoughts that you are just spitting back without thinking much about it.
Thanks for sharing!
A few blocks within Mogadishu and some outlying regions which fluctuate daily. They have no tax base, only money from the AU (UN).
Their power is restricted to the exogenous support they have.
Clayton -
Two of the primary features of a state are territorial monopoly and a monopoly over the the exercise of law. They have neither.
Isn’t the anarchy in Somalia a result of in-fighting between pirates, local governments, and guerillas? The market seems to be doing pretty well. People open up shops and sell things, after all. I make no claims of knowledge on this, but I haven’t really heard to much about shop owners being harassed and robbed every other day. Or week. If pirates are such a big problem, shoot them, or let them take your stuff. What kind of idiot traverses pirate-infested waters without protection? Since when is tribal law anarchy? More importantly, is it a no-fly zone? I’m fascinated by all of this, as I know very little about the situation in Somalia.