I figure that if he wins, and has a congress to back him, all these dopey optimists (Change!!) may start to realize that the whole system is a joke. There will be no (or fewer) excuses.
So … GOBAMA!!! (puke)
I never understood this tact. If voting for the lesser of two evils is still evil, then why is it good to encourage or hope for evil, and all of the pain and suffering it brings to others, in return for your desired outcome?
Is this some part of libertarian ethics I missed?
yes Obama, Pericles we have been waiting for
Rothbard (from the grave) :
Did I say I was voting for Obama?
I said I was rooting for Obama in hopes that the silly illusion of his supporters (re the legitimacy of the system) might be tempered or, even better, shattered.
Did you read my post before replying or just skim?
That’s great. [:D] I’ll be using that.
-Jon
LS,
Okay, I guess I skimmed (my bad).
My point is this: since evil is inevitable (McCain/Obama/continuance of system), I am hoping for the evil that may dash some of the trust some of fellows have in the system.
Is this hoping for evil and pain and suffering of others? No, it is not.
Does it have anything to do with the libertarian ethic? No, it does not.
I guess my point is, that I just don’t feel right cheering on coercion, even if I think it is in the long term best interests of liberty. Seems to create some ethical problems for me.
I’m not cheering on coercion either. I’m just recognizing that since coercion is inevitable I prefer the coercion that will dash some of the unwarranted optimism of some peers.
My post was just silly and cynical. I was just at my facebook account and the unbridled optimism was sickening.
Also, Nitroadict, how dare you insinuate that Rothbard is disapproving from the grave - that hurts![:(]
I hear ya about how sickening it is.
Still, I don’t think we should let the moronic Obama supporters bully us into expecting coercion to work in our favour. A lot of innocent (albeit ignorant) people will be killed or harmed by Obama. He is going to cause a lot of violence. Maybe even more than McCain. The left always ends up being violent because it is the only way to reach their goals.
The Democratic party is not left. It is center right. The Republican party is further to the right. The USA doesn’t really have any left-wing parties.
How would Rothabrd not dissaprove of rooting for Obama and/or McCain? The same Rothbard that wrote Power & Market ?
It’s not as if McCain is any better…
-Jon
Question: how often do people who have invested their egos into the winning candidate admit that they were patently wrong to do so?
Nitroaddict, that… is… AWESOME.
Get real. You should be able to understand that what I am really rooting for is more people to realize the futility/silliness of their faith. I just think that an Obama victory would be more conducive to this.
And isn’t this the same Rothbard who forged alliances with the New Left in the anti-Vietnam movement?
This holier-than-thou attitude is a little annoying.
Good question. Maybe a few. I have talked talked to some who really want ‘change’ and expect that they can get it within the confines of the present system, they are not invested in Obama particularily. Hopefully when they see his negative impact (or, more likely, his impotence) they will come that much closer to a realization of the failure of democracy in America.
I’m surprised how some people see my cynical rooting as somehow violating that libertarian ethic or making Rothbard roll over in his grave. It’s quite funny (as if I’m the one not understanding the libertarian ethic).
Look at it this way: You see a storm cloud coming. You have no control over whether this cloud drops rain or snow. So, you hope that it drops rain (thinking that this might wash away the grime) rather than snow (which might just cover it up). Mediocre analogy but maybe some will see the point that this has nothing to do with the libertarian ethic, nothing to so with hoping for pain and suffering on people, and nothing to do with hoping for the continuance of the evil state.
I’m surprised you are so indignant. Your analogy is not precise.
Your neighbors pray for rain, and you hope the rain comes in a storm that hits them with lightning bolts. That’ll teach them not to pray for rain!
We all have cynical, dark moments. The election has helped bring them on.
Ya, that analogy was pretty weak and it cannot be helped by your additions. The point is not that I hope for added pain and suffering, only that the inevitable pain and suffering that does come (which would merely be a continuation of the same pain and suffering that has been present for years) will be the type that does some good in the long run.
I am indignant as some have insinuated that this hope is somehow in violation of the ethic I live by. It is not. To use my hero Rothbard in those accusations especially stung (especially when tossed off so casually and not backed by argument - maybe you should have kept that clever visual for a more appropriate moment Nitroadict).
MUCH OFTENER THAN WHAT I INFER YOU THINK.
Just come to Venezuela and you will find millions of such people who once voted for Chávez and now they admit they were patently wrong to do so.
And yet you go to Venezuela and you see people disgusted by him embracing Obama.