I think the discussions on these forums would be immensely improved if people subscribed to this general rule:
“You don’t count as refuting someone unless they agree with you.”
Following this rule means that you cannot merely assert that someone is wrong, but you must help them see your point of view. Hence, it is a gain oriented mindset. You have to make them understand why your arguments are better than theirs.
Of course, someone can be a total carpet bagger and never admit they’re wrong or even try to have a civilized discussion - that’s why it is only a general rule.