Obsese? For 99% of recorded history, children primarily died young… from starvation.
I’d rather die of starvation then be involuntarily injected w/ mercury and fed big ag GMO crops, pasteurized milk full of cancer-causing agents and water full of toxic fluoride.
Then you’re silly. Silly for believing tripe like anti-vaccination BS, GMO BS, milk BS, and fluoride BS.
There will always be tradeoffs. This is the great lesson of economics.
If vaccinations cause occasional side-effects the diseases they’ve prevented are far worse.
If GMO crops have some negative aspects, the starvation they’ve abolished is far worse.
If milk pasteurization causes some health problems, then the deaths by bacterial infection and the like it prevents is far worse.
If fluoride has some negative effects, the tooth problems it prevents are far worse.
You would abandon an awesome world, the modern world, the best world there has -ever been- historically, because it’s not a perfect utopia.
And everyone on this board thinks you’re a complete fool for it.
And your callous response, that death for the masses is better than a few accidental health problems for the vast minority, is evil.
Then you’re silly. Silly for believing tripe like anti-vaccination BS, GMO BS, milk BS, and fluoride BS.
There will always be tradeoffs. This is the great lesson of economics.
If vaccinations cause occasional side-effects the diseases they’ve prevented are far worse.
If GMO crops have some negative aspects, the starvation they’ve abolished is far worse.
If milk pasteurization causes some health problems, then the deaths by bacterial infection and the like it prevents is far worse.
If fluoride has some negative effects, the tooth problems it prevents are far worse.
Fool. All these things are ways the gov is trying to kill us off. Of course most govs today won’t toss us in gulags. they’ll just poison us w/ whatever they can esp. our food and medicine. They do it through corporate monopoly. Just give a handful of corporations tons of subsidies, regulate everyone else so no one can compete and watch the population’s physical and mental health decline. Then make living off the grid illegal and censor all news which exposes this.
Raw milk isn’t BS. There was a study from Harvard of all places which PROVED that pasteurization creates cancer-causing agents in milk. Google it if you don’t believe me.
Fluoride isn’t BS. Even certain gov. agencies are admitting that too much fluoride in water is causing serious health effects.
Vax aren’t BS. Go to naturalnews if you don’t believe me. Autism was unheard of before kids were injected with tons of vax.
I’d also look up chips being injected into humans and ask myself whether or not there part of a new surveillance method.
“Instead, let’s go back to H/G society which is completely unsustainable at current population levels, thus killing off 90-95% of the human population!”
Googled it. Only references I found were to the increased amount of hormones found in milk when milked out of season. NOT pauseurization. Shocker
Too much water in your stomach will poison you. So yeah, if you fill up with that much flouride it would probably be harmful.
And madness was unheard of when people still believed in demonic possession.
Autism didn’t exist as a diagnosis, but autistic traits were recognized among human beings at least as far back as the time of martin luther. You might as well say that pluto didn’t exist 8000 years ago, because humans hadn’t discovered it or named it.
Throw off your pacemakers, your hearing-aids, your shackles of the state!
Correct, I do not. Where I have an option anyway.
You lack imagination then perhaps. My solution is to start a libertarian state on the water and make taxation illegal thereby. The only excuse for not living there is that it doesn’t yet exist–in planning stages. Give me time. But, assuming such a place existed, would you move there?
Examples? Support?
That very article is rife with solutions to top soil erosion. It’s a problem much like obtaining clean water is a problem, meaning it’s solvable by the application of human energy and ingenuity. There are both farmland means of stopping erosion, as well as ways to replace lost topsoil. It would be more surprising if farming required no maintenance. Soil erosion would only make farming unsustainable were there no solution to it. But there is.
Sustainable.
Should be.
Breathing renders air less usable. Farming renders land less fertile? Neither air nor farmland are ‘destroyed’ by either however, and natural processes restore the value of both.
There’s essentially an infinite amount of property and energy in the universe. Jevon’s paradox is only a problem if you maintain that man never moves into space and never achieves population stability.
Then you’d better support technological innovation, freedom, and business. Becuase they are what create all those things you say you value.
From your article, these were primarily women and children whom were literally raised in Indian society, were culturally indian and:
So, it’s not really surprising.
o_O No, a raft would not suffice. What I propose does not yet exist, at all, or I’d be there.
And we did it with science. Not with a return to hunting-gathering. Not with a repudiation of the modern world. We did it because freedom.
Have you done the math? Looked at the issue? There’s far more energy immediately available than we’d likely ever need. Need more? Fine, the earth’s surface is an incredibly tiny portion of the sun’s total output. There’s plenty of schemes already for space-based energy collection and distribution.
There is so much energy out there, even considering long-term growth. And we’re only talking one star. Lookup a Dyson Sphere if you want your mind blown.
Yes, because man survives by thinking, and man survived long enough to develop writing. You think agriculture just started? No, it’s the march to the modern world that began with agriculture.
When people were living as the OP suggests is the ideal, the ideal he wants to return to, they spent all day, every day, simply trying to feed themselves. If you have any leisure time at all right now, it’s because of things agriculture and tools made possible.
And it’s things those tools will continue to make possible moving forward, as long as people are free to keep creating this world we’ve made. They could disappear, sure, but it won’t be from soil erosion, lead poisoning, vaccines, milk, or fluoride, but rather from something dumb and artificial like war.
[quoteuser=“Anemone”]
Correct, I do not.
[/quote]
You are lyng, or ignorant.
[quoteuser=“Anemone”]
Where I have an option anyway.
[/quote]
Well, that isn’t what I asked .
[quoteuser=“Anemone”]
You lack imagination then perhaps.
[/quote]
Maybe I just like where I’m living. New England is truly God’s country.
[quoteuser=“Anemone”]
My solution is to start a libertarian state on the water and make taxation illegal thereby. The only excuse for not living there is that it doesn’t yet exist–in planning stages. Give me time.
[/quote]
Sounds like we both have the same problem, then. Lack of capital, LOL.
[quoteuser=“Anemone”]
But, assuming such a place existed, would you move there?
[/quote]
To a big boat in the middle of the ocean? LOL, no way!
[quoteuser=“Anemone”]
Examples? Support?
[/quote]
Why? I was just meeting an assertion with a counter-assertion. You go first, then we’ll talk.
[quoteuser=“Anamone”]
There are both farmland means of stopping erosion, as well as ways to replace lost topsoil.
[/quote]
LOL, how do you replace lost topsoil?
[quoteuser=“Anemone”]
Soil erosion would only make farming unsustainable were there no solution to it. But there is.
[/quote]
A bit Pollyannish, no? Topsoil is going away, plain and simple. Whether or not there are theoretically solutions, doesn’t mean they will be implemented in time to beat Malthus.
[quoteuser=“Anemone”]
Sustainable.
[/quote]
LOL, what is?
[quoteuser=“Anemone”]
Breathing renders air less usable. Farming renders land less fertile? Neither air nor farmland are ‘destroyed’ by either however, and natural processes restore the value of both.
[/quote]
OK, well using your (lame) analogy, breathing does destroy air. Tie a plastic bag around your head, and you’ll soon find that out. Farming destroys soil. There are ways to grow crops that don’t destroy soil, but they aren’t implemented on a wide scale, and per acre, would be much less economical from a commodity standpoint. So, they won’t be happening anytime soon.
[quoteuser=“Anemone”]
Jevon’s paradox is only a problem if you maintain that man never moves into space and never achieves population stability.
[/quote]
LOL, or you have a problem with making this planet like Coruscant. This presupposes the primacy of satisfaction of human material desires as the ultimate good.
And Jevon’s Paradox is exactly why population stability is a farce, unless you are ready to adopt some sort of Brave New World style Fabian dystopia.
[quoteuser=“Anemone”]
What I propose does not yet exist, at all, or I’d be there.
[/quote]
Well, what F4M and I propose (an anarcho-primitivist world) doesn’t exist yet either, so join the club.
[quoteuser=“Anemone”]
And we did it with science.
[/quote]
OK, and we can stave off the economic collapse with more money printing, right? The “Green Revolution” is failing.
[quoteuser=“Anemone”]
There’s far more energy immediately available than we’d likely ever need.
[/quote]
Remeber Jevon’s Paradox? There’s no such thing as “enough” energy.
[quoteuser=“Anemone”]
You think agriculture just started? No, it’s the march to the modern world that began with agriculture.
[/quote]
Uh, yeah, it did “just start”. And the modern world carries the state along with it. I don’t know why you are all so quick to celebrate it.
[quoteuser=“Anemone”]
When people were living as the OP suggests is the ideal, the ideal he wants to return to, they spent all day, every day, simply trying to feed themselves. If you have any leisure time at all right now, it’s because of things agriculture and tools made possible.
[/quote]
That is completely wrong. Laughably wrong, in fact. Link.
[quoteuser=“Anemone”]
They could disappear, sure, but it won’t be from soil erosion, lead poisoning, vaccines, milk, or fluoride, but rather from something dumb and artificial like war.
[/quote]
They?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3ARhMPVu-A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1t81Edhl2Y&
Remember that NONE of this could happen if not for a tech-driven society which depends solely on ag (esp. big ag) for food.
Do you eat raw paleo?
do you know where I could find out how to make wilderness pemmican? Specifically do you know how to render fat without copper age tools? Or know anyone who might know? Thanks.
Do you eat raw paleo?
do you know where I could find out how to make wilderness pemmican? Specifically do you know how to render fat without copper age tools? Or know anyone who might know? Thanks.
I eat a raw vegan diet. No meat, no dairy (except raw milk of course) and no grains.
Come to New Hampshire. We have an ABUNDANCE of wild food here. Plenty to gather.
@Anenome so you want to keep living in violent and unhealthy civ?
[quoteuser=“excel”]
What happens when scarcity is greater than the increases in efficiency?
[/quote]
I don’t know. I’ve been told here that entrepreneurs will just come up with some innovation (or would be able to, in a laissez-faire society) to maintain the supply of goods. Replacement goods, essentially.
Let’s see a picture of your average breakfast, lunch and dinner please?
Let’s see a picture of your average breakfast, lunch and dinner please?
Dumped my cell phone last year. No camera.
If we accept that as true, then the paradox does not apply to reality.
[quoteuser=“excel”]
If we accept that as true, then the paradox does not apply to reality.
[/quote]
Well, I haven’t read any good reasons to accept that conclusion. I’m just repeating what I’ve seen so far.
