Does anyone, besides the jobless OP with time to kill on the internet, mind if I graveyard this?
i don’t mind if Daniel doesn’t. we were talking about something, but we can always private chat this if you want Daniel. i know what you’re saying daniel and it need not all be hashed out tonight - we can solve all the world’s problems tomorrow maybe[:P]
I’m probably joining the Air Force, and I wanted to turn this conversation away from the discussion of whether killing terrorists is immoral. I’m not killing time, I started this thread for a reason. It’s not like once I get up from this chair someone is going to offer me a way out.
Well, the discussion does touch fundamental moral problems related to libertarianism IMO. Although the whole issue is rather nasty, it is also interesting when investigating what beliefs make the state possible.
They aren’t terrorists. They are citizens in their own country. The US troops invading their country are the ones spreading terror.
But we already knew you would join the air force. The military, or any state solution, is always the easy way out, which is why once you have welfare, you get a welfare state.
No one is going to offer you a way out. You’re not entitled to anything. Go out and beat the streets until your feet hurt. Get a job. Get two part time jobs. Work under the table (less than minimum wage). Figure it out. Becoming a paid killer (and possibly getting killed yourself) is irrational.
The decision is ultimately up to you not everyone here is anti an all volunteer military, least of all myself. I don’t consider the U.S. military murders or any of the other nonsensical claims made by non-miseans.
Of course the US military murders. It has murdered millions of people in the last 50 years. Many of them civilians.
Well, like the OP, you are also not a libertarian.
Yeah, but the state has gone way beyond simply taking our money. It claims and practicses ownership over our children and ourselves, it murders, rapes, and pillages. It claims and practices ownership over our property, and so on. But yeah, I don’t agree that we must kill all petty theives.
I am a limited government libertarian not an anarcho-capitalist.
What services should the government provide?
You thus far dodged the question of whether it would be okay to kill Chinese troops on US soil, aka invading forces.
If you say it’s okay, you are a hypocrite (as all you have to do is switch the words Chinese and US and for you it makes everything okay). If you say it’s not, how do you defend yourself from invasions from other countries or individuals?
WTF ? American soldiers are not children who wandered in a neighbor’s lawn. As it has been pointed out, ad nauseam, american soldiers are not just innocent ‘trespassers’ - they routinely raze countries to the ground and murder people in the millions.
You are just looking for a lame excuse to justify your twisted vision of the world.
Courts, Police and Military (Voluntary and mostly reserve).
In your deluded mind.
A little radicalism here and there is very refreshing, IMHO. We might not agree with Juan (I know I don’t), but the strength of an ideology is measured by its followers’ radicalism.
I don’t think that stating historical facts is radicalism.
Why can’t/shouldn’t the market provide these?
The market has nothing to do with legal rights. In the absence of any form of government, no law would be agreed upon and only those that can afford police or a military would be able to. The only ones with “rights” we be those with the power to prevent others from taking what is theirs.
No, in actual fact. The US military didn’t fight a single defensive war. Not. A. Single. One. And you know it.
Of course I could suggest that you are deluded and don’t grasp the facts, but the reality is that you lack the guts to acknowledge the facts.
And of course, the American military are a perfect example of your monopolistic system of ‘justice and defense’. They are a perfect example of all that can and must go wrong with a ‘minimal’ state. That’s another powerful reason for you to pretend that things are not what they are, and so avoid admitting that your political theory is bankrupt, both intellectually and morally.
Just join if you need it. Do not listen to these bozos.