THE FOLLOWING CONTENT HAS BEEN MOVED HERE FROM ANOTHER THREAD
E.R. Ollovetto wrote: “I can’t believe that mods deleted that image as well as all the posts after. Great job guys. I’d like an explanation.”
E.R. Ollovetto wrote: Here is the verbal description of this so called “offensive image”: a 4 stage morphing of the swastika into the Star of David along with the slogan “History takes shape”. What the moderators fail to realize is context. The image wasn’t used alongside me saying “Jews are bad.” or something. It is within the context of this recent episode of Israeli murders. This is analogous to me discussing the word “nigger” without saying “I hate black people”, and instead saying, “How can you argue against me using the word “nigger”, when you are advocating slavery?” (For the record, I am a “guido”/“honky” who is married outside of my race/skin color.)
Also, you deleted several posts of mine having nothing to do with the “offensive image”. The fact remains that bloom is a hedonist hypocrite for condemning Hitler’s actions “against his people”. His “legal reasoning” is lock-step with Hitler’s.
DONDOLEE:
For what it’s worth:
I personally thought the image was just trying to be goading and overly provacative, perhaps you didn’t intend it to be that way, but that’s how it appeared to me. It also looked to be something that was going to be inherently counter productive to any dialogue had it been acknowledged by your opponent.
The rest of the conversation seemed a bit too spurrious, personal, and inflammatory (especially considering the intended topic of this thread) to be of much merit. I think the mods made the right call if there goal was to try to keep this topic alive and healthy.
my two cents
BLOOMJ: “I’d like an explanation.”
I personally don’t think you deserve one. Thank you moderators.
lol, good use of promoting the “member issues”.
I don’t know why you think that all moderating a forum is about is responding to “inflammatory comments”.
The quote button has been broken for over a month. I’ve personally written out a guide to the workaround a few times, let alone other people who made the effort. This is something that could have been stickied in every forum.
Then there is the greater issue of if this forum is supposed to be at all directed toward scholarship or its just a place for every clueless statist, legal positivist or moral relativist to spout their views and blatantly ignore rational arguments. How many threads on nukes are going to be made week after week before a mod starts saying, “We’ve had a thread on this every week, thread closed, refer to this sticky.”?
Your feedback has been noted.
How civil of you.
There were a whole bunch of posts deleted in that thread related to bloom seemingly saying that there was nothing wrong with what Hitler did than “his people” being on the wrong side of the battle. I’m wondering if he realized how foolish and hypocritical this was and deleted his own post, plus the option to “delete children”, or if the mods did it.
What is the point of this group if you aren’t actually going to address the forum issues? I still don’t think there is anything wrong with using that image in this context of a Jew saying there is nothing wrong with the flotilla murders because “it’s what the law says”.
The posts were deleted as “children” and as a budding flame ware between you and Bloom. While it is fine to ask for moderator attention to issues in this forum, that is not its express purpose. The reporting function is still the place for that. The purpose of this forum is to give members a place to discuss member issues where it won’t distract from discussions about economics, political theory, philosophy, and history on the front page.
I found that Swastika image to be quite repulsive; Was it supposed to be ironic? I think not.
Even though I haven’t seen the thread of which this was posted in, I have seen the image before and thought it was pretty fitting to the current state of Israel.
The posts were deleted as “children” and as a budding flame ware between you and Bloom. While it is fine to ask for moderator attention to issues in this forum, that is not its express purpose. The reporting function is still the place for that. The purpose of this forum is to give members a place to discuss member issues where it won’t distract from discussions about economics, political theory, philosophy, and history on the front page.
I didn’t flame him. Unless it is also forbidden now to say things like, “Your cherished Marxism is a joke.” (Replace Marxism with [naive] legal positivism, and that is what I said.)
In my very first post about forum issues, I suggested rules from another forum and both the ban on “broad brush attacks on political ideologies” and “baseless assertions” were rejected. So, it looks like I did nothing IIRC to cause a flame fest to “bud”, unless there is a necessary change in rules you ought to make.
See, if I knew that this rule existed and could count on you guys to enforce is symmetrically, bloom would have been long gone and this whole thing would have never happened. In fact, didn’t someone say once that bloom had already been banned and returned? So, when Lilburne feels like he has an axe to grind with me, the rules are enforced. Otherwise, people like Rettopper making 6 (!!!) posts in a row, including (in short) saying that libertarians are “faith based” and “jihadists” get nothing done about them. Oh, then we have this post where mods are posting in the thread and just gloss over comments people make to me.
This one is up there with the most ridiculous responses I’ve ever gotten here. First I was told:
What do you have against buying books?
This is some evening, 1-2 hours after this dude cited some work related to the topic of (his) legal positivism, which is utterly off-topic. I did’t go out to buy his $45 suggested read and digest it in an appropriate timeframe apparently. This is the same chap who claims to read a book a day, yet is perhaps one of the worst cases of “educated person reading comprehension deficit”. This post is so amazingly off-topic and ridiculous. Really? Really?
So basically, you are technically not proficient in any of the literature in logic, economics, or history, and not interested in reading it… However, this is my fault, obviously…
Read the books you have. Why did you buy them as you said if you haven’t yet read them? Then:
Make an expanded reading list! Otherwise, you’ll end up like mainstream people who are such because they don’t read anything but journal articles from the last few months. I have met economics professors from U. of Chicago who haven’t read Frank Knight…
Your posts are massively full of errors if you don’t read.
Post all of my innocuous posts, the reducio leading to bloom’s apparent position in support of Hitleresque policies as long as he is on the winning team, and you will see that I did not flame him, even when he said things like, “I know you’ll morally condemn me, but I don’t really care. You’re absolutely irrelevant to me, I need nothing from you.”
I completely ignored this crap. I stayed civil, besides maybe posting some image entirely appropriate to a Jew himself advocating Nazism, which some thin-skinned folk who seem to ignore all context deemed racist.
apparently copying HTML source from the “real forum”'s editor doesn’t work and we end up with these fucked up links oh well, who cares right, fucking quote has not been fixed in two months
I want my MVP tag back. Nobody has yet been able to make a case that this image was not appropriate in the context of a Jew advocating Hitleresque policies.
I think the recent news about Castro comparing Israel to Nazi Germany is ironic.
“The hatred felt by the state of Israel against the Palestinians is such that they would not hesitate to send the one and a half million men, women and children of that country to the crematoria where millions of Jews of all ages were exterminated by the Nazis,” he said.
“It would seem that the Fuehrer’s (Nazi leader Adolf Hitler’s) swastika is today Israel’s banner,”
I think his first statement is true. They would non hesitate if not for the internet age making it harder to hide their atrocities, and the international climate, especially their biggest supporter, the US, not condoning outright Nazism. Both countries prefer the sleek new model of soft fascism.
Suicide bombings in Israel have decreased over the past few years to almost nothing and Hamas has just recently publicly said it has stopped sponsoring the practice because it only serves to feed Israel’s propaganda machine. Across the country almost every farmer is tied to miri land serfdom. The people of occupied territories are forced to pay Israeli taxes, but do not receive welfare benefits and are not considered citizens.
Is Israeli terror as swift and severe as the Nazi’s was? No, but it nonetheless exists. Read here for the history of the process of developing Palestinian ghettos by Israel. << http://www.countercurrents.org/pa-hassan100706.htm >>
Consistent with Israel’s “annexation plan” or “convergence plan” – as is called today – to isolate the Palestinian into Nazi’s-like ghettos, the rest of the occupied West Bank will be divided into three big ghettos. The three big ghettos then divided into nine smaller ghettos separated from each other by walls, and Jewish-only highways. In addition to total restrictions on freedom of movement, the ghettos are manned by countless military checkpoints and razor wires making life unbearable for the Palestinian population. The aim is to prevent any possibility of establishing a viable Palestinian state and subject the Palestinians to servitude, thus the final dispossession of the Palestinian people from their land.
Jews who lived in and experienced the Nazi’s ghettos have often made the comparison between Israel’s brutal treatments of the Palestinian people and the Nazis’ brutal treatments of Jews. In a letter to the Israeli press more than twenty years ago, Jewish holocaust survivor Shlomo Shmelzman wrote: “In my childhood I have suffered fear, hunger and humiliation when I passed from the Warsaw Ghetto, through labour camps, to Buchenwald. I hear too many familiar sounds today, sounds which are being amplified by the war. I hear about ‘closed areas’ and I remember ghettos and camps. I hear ‘two-legged beasts’ and I remember ‘Untermenschen’ [subhumans]. I hear about tightening the siege, clearing the area, pounding the city into submission, and I remember suffering, destruction, death, blood and murder…Too many things in Israel remind me of too many things from my childhood”. (Ha’aretz, 11 August 1982). Israel’s terror and crimes have since increased by many folds.
Unlike the German ghettos, which were provisional, Israel regards the Palestinian ghettos as permanent measure to control Palestinian lives. Further, Israel uses the ghettos as investment for the benefit of the Israeli economy. Israel is moving highly polluting industry and sweatshops to industrial zones around the ghettos where Palestinians will be used (forced) as slaves to provide cheap and abundant labour. In addition, Palestinian ghettos are open-air prisons completely controlled by Israel.
For anyone to assume that the use of that image was a racially motivated attack on Jews is the height of ignorance, an insult to Holocaust survivors as well as the Palestinian victims of today.
The answer is still no.
Yeah, stick to Rettopper. Debating me is apparently out of your league.
I will explain and defend my administrative decisions to a certain extent, but I will not “debate” them with you. I will, however, debate scholarly issues. And I will point out that you have still yet to answer my refutation of argumentation ethics from a long time ago, even though I wrote the refutation in response to your challenge to critique it.
Why does anyone care that it is offensive?
I understand the staff are probably trying to maintain a “presentable” image of the forums, living up to the conservative culture that LVMI seems to embrace, but these forums contain quite a few young and more open minded people. Shouldn’t the forums rules reflect that?
I want to see more about why the image was removed, and I want to see the rules listed.
Also, not all rules are enforced, so why was this one? Is it because one of the administrative staff was particularly offended by the image? Does it matter whether a minority or a majority were offended?
What if it had been a swastika morphing with a cross in the same context?
Furthermore, haven’t there been a lot of comparisons with Israeli foreign policy and the Nazi’s? Isn’t the image simply a reflection of that?
The forum has aspirations to be a forum for more enlightened discussion than for flame-wars
The forums reflect the presence of the more irreverant elements by giving them guidance on what is acceptable and attempting to moderate them.
If you see rules not being enforced and this bothers you make a report. The image itself is deifnitely more provocative and offensive than the vast majority of
images posted here. I don’t know what sense of the word ‘matters’ you are using, but ultimately as the mods make these decisions it will be them making
the decisions and not others.
I say no; I would however consider a swastika morphing into a hammer and sickle as being acceptable.
Yes, there should probably be less of that? not a good reflection.