DD5 your posting is laughable. As is your warped “logic”. Your hysterical posting should be preserved somewhere as some sort of warnning for small children as what they should take care to never descend into.
"DD5 your posting is laughable. "
Why do I feel like I’m debating a Marxist now all of a sudden.
I called you out on your hypocrisy and inconsistency. Now you’re trying to mask it by the usual Marxist style and defensive smoke screen.
Go ahead. Enlighten all of us here… How does one steal property that has not been previously privately owned?
Defending Israeli actions always requires ignoring important information, or bending logic.
Just bc it isn’t privately owned doesn’t mean it there aren’t (relatively) legitimate owners of the property. For example, the we disband the US government its capital ought to be transferred to US citizens in some proportionate way. The aggressed have a claim. No third party can come and take over a US military base and say its not theft.
Snowflake,
Nobody is talking about loot that can in some way be tracked back to its original owners.
All of that “public” land in that map is unsettled land. According to homesteading theory, that land was owned by nobody. Nobody can claim to have ownership over a piece of land that he did not physically homestead. Let’s not start to obfuscate libertarian ownership theory so that we can continue to rant about Israel stealing all of that land.
I didnt’ know. Im sure some of it was in use though… 
“Defending Israeli actions always requires ignoring important information, or bending logic.”
Go ahead, defend on libertarian grounds, the right of some Palestinians to return to the land they never actually owned.
By the way, you have to be out of your mind to think that I am defending Israeli actions.
Snowflake,
“Some” automatically makes that map Statist propaganda. And that “Some” in, physical terms, would most probably be barely noticeable on that map. Most of that land was unused unfertile desert land. Much of it still is by the way. All such territorial maps are based on Statist conception of property. My point here is to simply expose the fallacy in the typical anti-Israeli argument being propagated here. It is inconsistent with libertarian philosophy.
I originally thought DD5 was a bit nuts, but the last post makes sense. In reality most of that land is still unowned.
Maybe you should get your facts straight:
Oh really?
So which authority says the Palestinians own the land?
“So which authority says the Palestinians own the land?”
No map that he will bring forward, or pie charts, tables, graphs, or whatever, are going to change the hard fact that nearly all of that territory was unowned by anybody. Unless, of course, Marko is ready to recognize the legitimacy of any [or some] of the previous governments who have occupied that territory and claimed that land as their own, or he is ready to recognize the various other criminal organizations (Like the UN) who have arbitrarily partitioned the land.
By the way, that map doesn’t show what part of that Arab population is still there. Most of them are still there in possession of their property. Now, it is one thing to argue that the Arab population is being discriminated against or treated badly or whatever, but it is another thing to say that his argument is about stolen real-estate. Bull Shit! It is about who gets to be the statist oppressor.
Why do you lie constantly?
From the areas that became Israel 700,000 were forced from their property in 1948. 160,000 were allowed to remain.
“Why do you lie constantly?”
First of all, you just displayed in full illustration (twice) the biggest lie ever then, although, I am ready to attribute that “lie” to a simple case of misconstruing the conflict. That map you showed is meaningless, for nearly all of its territory was not owned by anybody! Before you call people liars, why don’t you retract that silly “theft” argument based on maps of open territory constructed by various criminal organizations, which all of a sudden you recognize as legitimate authorities on the matter.
Second, I’m not interested in debating the numbers of individuals who were forced to leave their home. Nearly a third of that that map of yours shows territories that use to belong to Jordan and Egypt so unless the Jordanians and Egyptians expelled them from their homes, then they are still there. And regarding numbers I wouldn’t know because it is no more rational to believe Palestinian authorities then Israeli authorities on these matters. I know for a fact that they disagree on both numbers and circumstances.
And again, I said before that I was not talking about loot that can be tracked to its original owners. I never denied that some individuals lost their property. But I said that the Palestinian liberation movement is not about reclaiming back some private property for their original owners. It’s about reclaiming territorial ownership for a Palestinian State. Now unless you believe in some tribal collectivist theory of ownership, you gotta recognize that the Palestinian liberation movement has nothing to do with individual freedom.
Your position on this matter is not anti-state, but anti-Israel. Inconsistent with anything that has to do with libertarianism.
Who cares what you said?
Anyone discussing any topic with DD5 (or anyone) should care somewhat about what he says.
It is not a point I ever raised, dismissed, affirmed or commented upon, so I really don’t see the point of having it thrown at me repeatedly. I am not bitting.
I know better than to start on a topic like that with someone who lacks sense to the point where he dismisses private land ownership statistics as “statist propaganda” and claims Palestine was instead virgin land. After that what is there further to talk about?
under what conditions would you ever dismiss ‘private land ownership statistics’ offered to you in some other debate on another topic? would you be justified in requesting further evidence if you had reason to suspect it may be propaganda?
The Negev covers over 55% of modern israels landmass according to wikiped ,and my understanding is that its mostly ‘virgin’.
Perhaps, you can at least attempt to find common ground, or make clear your disagreement as to why some offered statistic should or should not be given due weighting before you throw your hands up in contempt of your interlocutor in a debate… Are there other statistics from other sources that your audience will take as more credible? its worth asking. We haven’t got to the stage of refusing to back up claims, or of raging non-sequiturs with no effort/willingness to fill in gaps when they are pointed out
From my perspective its too soon to claim any argumentative highground regardless of whether either of you are right or wrong on the matter.
I totally agree with Mises Pieces-- we should not be even remotely involved!