Praxeological Ethics

In the same way the vast majority of men prefer the accumulation of wealth compared to its destruction, the vast majority of men prefer peace to violence?

Some of you may get where I’m coming from in the above. I’m thinking of the application of praxeology to human interaction, what could be called “ethics”. Sort of inspired by Adam Knott (I haven’t digested it entirely, Adam).

I’m not sure if this will come across correctly, but what I’m trying to say is we don’t need a “natural law” to tell us to be “moral” and not aggress against other individuals just as we don’t need a “natural law” to tell us to create and accumulate wealth.

Hope it makes sense, and is not infantile, lol.

+1

It seems obvious, as the majority of citizens of the US aren’t police officers!

Empathy and common sense are naturally occurring, shared traits among most people, due to our evolution from social animals.

These commonality two traits (among others) imply that the majority of individuals will naturally cooperate, rather than fight, to attain their ends.

This statement is true, now where does it lead us?

This sounds a lot like natural law to me. Barring the part that this behavior or ethic is biologically ingrained in us, there is nothing new or praxeological about an ethic drawn from the action of the majority.

The “natural law” is just the manifestation of those realizations, either conscious or unconscious, as a set of rules. But the problem is that, in modern times, that set of rules became quite perverted.

No, no my friend, physics is a natural law. It can be denied, but it cannot be defied.

My post was merely an assurance that without objective, universal, and absolute ethical codes, people would still, by and large, interact peacefully (enough to prevent absolute chaos, at least), leaving the psychotic minority marginalized to insignificance, or dead, as determined by the market.

We agree that peaceful and cooperative behavior occur naturally without imposed codes, but I would still call it (perhaps wrongfully) natural law. In science (as I understand it) laws exist only because they have yet to be disproved. There is enough evidence to push it beyond theory, but because of the nature of empiricism, laws must continually be subject to falsification.

This is probably just semantics, but I tend to shy away from the word “law” in general, as for me it implies statement in absolute terms. I’d call it “statement of preferences”. Of course, no matter what they call it, most people on this forum probably agree

otherwise, I couldn’t imagine how you could couple that with anarchistic desire… unless you were one of the psychopaths.

That’s true, but they are still stated in absolute terms, until they are disproved scientifically. By that meter of “law”, natural laws of ethics are being disproved constantly.

Good call. There is no doubt that the non aggression axiom is broken more often than say, gravity. The beauty of libertarian theory, in my opinion, is that it constantly justified for so many reasons (natural law, utilitarianism, consequentialism).

Yeah, the pluralism resulting from freedom of ideas is pretty sweet.

Seems naive to me.

Tacoface:

Here is the best critique of natural-law I am aware of in libertarian literature:

If you haven’t read O’Neil’s article, it is probably required reading for anyone interested in natural law, pro or con.

Here is one of the key passages on page 94/95:

(apologies to those who have seen this before)

"…let us assume thatthe ultimate value of a particular ethical system could he proven,
what could be made of conscious, deliberate defiance of it?

We come upon a man committing some act grossly violative of his nature: let
us say that he was engaged in a theft. We apprehend him, and while we have him
in custody we question him about the nature of the act we caught him performing.
We fmd he is an extremely knowledgeable fellow, familiar with all the arguments
of the natural law school. In fact, he has read Rasmussen’s article and was con-
vinced that the proposition that a man ought to act in accord with his nature is
correct, logically. “Well,” we ask him, “if you know that to steal is to act against
your nature, and you know that you ought to act according to your nature, how
could you bring yourself to commit your felonious act?” “I chose not to act in
accord with correct ethical principles,” our philosophical burglar might answer.

My story, I trust, illustrates the problem. To deny an ultimate value and to
defy an ultimate value are not at all the same activity, and it is the latter which
provides the stronger suppolt of the is-ought dichotomy. One can deny a fact, but
one cannot defy one. You can deny the law of gravity is operative in the world,
but your denial will have no effect on what will happen when you step off a
precipice. The law of gravity operates no matter which course of action you
pursue-if you accept the existence of the operation of the law and hold yourself
back from the edge of the cliff, or if you reject the truth of the law of gravity
and step over the ledge, or if you accept the truth of the law, but wish to fall (let
us say as a means of suicide), in all three cases the operation of the law of gravity
is unaffected.

Moral law does not work in this way, however. One can admit the intellectual
correctness of a proposition of moral law (even of its ultimate value), and yet
deliberately defy it. This being the case, we must question what moral law means:
If one could not, by any means whatsoever, defy moral law, great difficulty would
arise over the appropriateness of the use of “ought”-for we do not normally use
that word to command actions which in any event cannot be avoided. If, on the
other hand, one can and does defy the imperative of a moral law, how is one still
seen as bound by it? Punishment or other ill consequences do not suffice to make
moral law objective, for if the person committing the violation of the maxim(s)
prefers the object of his illicit action, even when coupled with punitive or other
unfortunate consequences, that seems to mean that there is no apparent reason why
he should not act contrary to that moral law.

Any reason offered for why one should not act contrary to moral law must
either be a fact or a value. If a fact, it will need to he made relevant by the accep-
tance (envaluation; not epistemological acceptance) of that fact by the individual’s
will, which condition, in turn, renders it subjective. If a value, it, in its turn, will
require an answer why it may not be defied, and so ad injnitum."

You’re misunderstanding what natural law is. See this.

Why? Hitler and th SA were weenies, I bet the Bloods, or the Mormons could take them out any day.

It also begs the question, if you had free reign, how many people would tolerate your anti-social behavior towards them before you were strung up.

There is evidence of this sort of naturally occuring cooperation throughout history. The wild west, for one.

Took a very quick look at the link. I’ve had this discussion before, and I fairly certain what you natty rights are stating is:

“the principles of objectively good interaction can be deduced using logic”

To which I say:

“Great, sounds like a pretty rock solid way to formulate a set of ethics for you to live your life by, but don’t come preaching to me”

Objectivity is unattainable for a (non-omniscient) human, so it’s impossible to say that these are “laws”, and even less metaphysically, I’m sure there are plenty of people who are just fine being in epistemic error, so the theory is useless unless you voluntarily submit to its guidelines.

Are you rejecting the idea of objective truth?

I’ll answer that question, but first you have to tell me how to objectively observe anything, without the distortions and limitations of individual perception.

This is a common mistake (which I’ve made several times) on “natural law,” it obviously doesn’t mean governing people independently of their will like those of physics and biology as there wouldn’t be a need for ethics at all. Its rather acknowledged as a way to view behaviour.

surely you mean that you “Don’t know whether objectivity is attainable or not for a human, so it could be possible or impossible to say that these are ‘Laws’”?

It seems the burden of proof would rest with you, since in our ordinary practices we can objectively observe things perfectly well.

Right, so Jackson is saying “it is objectively true that humans cannot obtain objectivity.” The argument from self-contradiction strikes again!