Rothbardian Constitution

Yeah, I have some pretty serious problems with it, right from the outset.

The implication of calling this a “law” is that it is law - but it’s not law. The problem with government is the idea that governments are the source of law.

I have a problem with the word “sovereign.” What makes sovereigns sovereign is that they are judges in their own cases, that is, they have the ability to enforce a double legal standard with their overwhelming power. I don’t think democratizing this immorality, historically reserved to royalty and a select few other tyrants, solves anything.

I also have problems with natural law - what is natural law? Who decides what laws count as natural laws and which do not? Reason? Reason is only a tool, a method to aid discussion among people who already share presuppositions, not an accurate description of individuals entangled in conflict (the place where law really matters most).

Then why bother writing all this?

Again, this is content-less. Without a customary-law context in which to fill out the details of what actually constitutes ‘initiation’, ‘physical violence’, ‘credible threat’, ‘any reason’, ‘forfeits’ and so on, even if you had 100% unanimous agreement to this law, it wouldn’t be of any use.

The implication of words like ‘Territory’ ‘Citizens’ ‘Rothbardia’ and ‘protection’ is dangerous. I understand you’re trying to put this in language that people can understand but I don’t think it’s thorough-going enough. Personally, I think the only way forward is political decentralization and secession. Longer-term, I have proposed symbolic democracy as a stand-in for the transition to a natural order society. However, I think it may yet be many generations before we are prepared for natural order society.

Clayton -

I wrote an “anarchist constitution” once for the fun of it (maybe there was some other reason, but I’ve forgotten) and posted it on this very site. I then realized that it was far too full of positive statements about negative rights. The nonaggression principle and a non-monopolistic court system with horizontal appeal to apply it is all a free society needs.

However, I still find it fun to write documents along these lines, so I came up with something new more recently. It’s much more succinct, fitting entirely on a single page, and while not “state proof” (nothing is) it seems to me that it would be fairly enforced by a system of freely competing courts and arbitration.

Thanks, I’ll be looking closely at it. In the mean time feel free to improve upon the Covenant of Rothbardia.

Clayton wrote the following post at 11-03-2010 1:11 AM:

Yeah, I have some pretty serious problems with it, right from the outset.

So do I, which is why I’m posting here. To put it more succintly my problem statement is:

Given Terra Nullius, how may one secure it for AnarchoCapitalism. (As Terra Nullius it’s up for grabs by any state, hence status of Terra Nullius must be cancelled by a claim to it). Further:

  1. How to avoid getting immediately clobbered by the neighboring States that are all militarily more powerful?

  2. How does one achieve the establisment of free circulation of people, capital, goods and services between Rothbardia and the traditional States? (It is becoming increasingly difficult to travel the world with a passport that is not recognized by any State.)

  3. How does one avoid or put a break on any tendency evolving within Rothbardia to becoming a “normal” State?

The implication of calling this a “law” is that it is law - but it’s not law. The problem with government is the idea that governments are the source of law.

Wikipedia: “Law[4] is a system of rules”. I could alway exchange the word for “Rule”, but that makes it sound like we’re on the Soccer pitch, code or decree are other synonyms but with their specific problems.

With respect to the “government” the Covenant makes it clear that it is simply a very limited diplomatic service, and that laws are made by direct democracy way. In fact, the Covenant provides (on paper) for more democracy and better protection of minority rights than any Constituion I’ve ever seen.

I have a problem with the word “sovereign.” What makes sovereigns sovereign is that they are judges in their own cases, that is, they have the ability to enforce a double legal standard with their overwhelming power. I don’t think democratizing this immorality, historically reserved to royalty and a select few other tyrants, solves anything.

OK, changed

I also have problems with natural law - what is natural law? Who decides what laws count as natural laws and which do not? Reason? Reason is only a tool, a method to aid discussion among people who already share presuppositions, not an accurate description of individuals entangled in conflict (the place where law really matters most).

You have a point, and I am lacking a solution. Weakness conceeded and suggestions requested.

Again, this is content-less. Without a customary-law context in which to fill out the details of what actually constitutes ‘initiation’, ‘physical violence’, ‘credible threat’, ‘any reason’, ‘forfeits’ and so on, even if you had 100% unanimous agreement to this law, it wouldn’t be of any use.

Terra Nullius will by definition not have a common-law context, although context may be imported be the individuals these are unlikely to share the same background. Solution: Prepare a accompaying text with definitions, clarifications etc (Best I can come up with).

The implication of words like ‘Territory’ ‘Citizens’ ‘Rothbardia’ and ‘protection’ is dangerous.

I agree those are “red flags”, especially with respect to #1 above, however #2 above requires something that be recognized as a polity by other States. To put it another way I am trying to hit two targets with one bullet:

A. Murray N. Rothbard (Society Without A State http://www.therothbardians.com/murrayrothbardsocietywithoutastate.html)

Let me say from the beginning that I define the State as that institution which possesses one or both (almost always both) of the following properties: (1) it acquires its income by the physical coercion known as “taxation”; and (2) it asserts and usually obtains a coerced monopoly of the provision of defense service (police and courts) over a given territorial area. Any institution, not possessing either of these properties is not and cannot be, in accordance with my definition, a “State”. On the other hand, I define anarchist society as one where there is no legal possibility for coercive aggression against the person or property of any individual.

B. Montevideo Convention (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montevideo_Convention)

The state as a person of international law should possess the following qualifications: (a) a permanent population; (b) a defined territory; (c) government; and (d) capacity to enter into relations with the other states.

I understand you’re trying to put this in language that people can understand but I don’t think it’s thorough-going enough.

It must necessarily be in plain language to be legitimately adopted by the residents of Terra Nullius (I could write it in Old Norse, but some judge might invalidate the contract as the parties apparently didn’t quite understand what they signed).

I agree that it is not thorough-going enough, which is why it’s posted here for all to modify and improve upon it. Lowering the ink:information ratio is an excellent improvement as it should be as short as possible as well.

BTW Really appreciate the coherent criticism.

1. How to avoid getting immediately clobbered by the neighboring States that are all militarily more powerful?

The Anarchist Society vs. the Military State: The Insignificance of the Free Rider [Vedran Vuk]

http://mises.org/books/chaostheory.pdf, chp 2.

Re-post because they were ignored.

2. How does one achieve the establisment of free circulation of people, capital, goods and services between Rothbardia and the traditional States? (It is becoming increasingly difficult to travel the world with a passport that is not recognized by any State.)

They leave their states behind, go homestead the un-owned, un-claimed land whereever it is. Shop around in the market for law & defense, find a reputable agency… backed via an insurance company, who has several RE’s (re-insurance) to it’s name… then make an agreement (private contract) with that company which would be one of many. [Ohh lordy, where is this “constitution” to be found?! ]

Your question is what a statist would ask. “How would the system work?” … ahhh mate, what system? Get rid of your inner central planner.

You are not a philosopher king, stop trying to be one.

Your premise also needs questioning.. why would anyone want to leave “Rothbardia”. Better yet, just drop his whole name together.. this venture is just dragging it through the mud.

3. How does one avoid or put a break on any tendency evolving within Rothbardia to becoming a “normal” State?

You don’t erect anything similar to a constitution or a social contract, which pretends to enact or codify the “laws” for a region or populace, that’s for damn sure. The market solves the problem of who watches the watchmen, yet this seems to be completely devoid in your understanding of a freemarket in law.

Would Anarchy create governments? - Stephan Molyeux

Stateless Dictatorships - Stephan Molyeux

Conza88 wrote the following post at 11-03-2010 4:58 AM:

Re-post because they were ignored.

Not ignored, just having some timeconstraints. Will get through them, soon I hope. Pleased to see you haven’t entirely given up on me

They leave their states behind, go homestead the un-owned, un-claimed land whereever it is. Shop around in the market for law & defense, find a reputable agency… backed via an insurance company, who has several RE’s (re-insurance) to it’s name… then make an agreement (private contract) with that company which would be one of many.

Entirely agree

Your premise also needs questioning.. why would anyone want to leave “Rothbardia”. Better yet, just drop his whole name together.. this venture is just dragging it through the mud.

Reasons to have free circulation of people, capital, goods and services with other/neighboring states are derived from the benefits of the division of labour, and the fact that “Rothbardia” is poorly endowed by nature and just shy of 100 square miles. Hence going for a crash-course in Crusoe economics doesn’t sufficiently motivate me.

Go ahead and change the name, no problem.

You don’t erect anything similar to a constitution or a social contract, which pretends to enact or codify the “laws” for a region or populace, that’s for damn sure. The market solves the problem of who watches the watchmen, yet this seems to be completely devoid in your understanding of a freemarket in law.

Admittedly, I still have to take that last step into the abyss. I’m not concerned about the watching the watchmen there is no issue there, in fact the police/enforcers aren’t even mentioned in the covenant. My only remaining “tie” to the “old” world is that of law (and free movement outside).

Whatsmore I don’t quite see how you seem to claim that there’s not a free market in law in Rothbardia. I am offering one set of laws (which I, according to the preamble, have managed to get everyone to sign up to voluntarily), should someone else come up with a better set of laws those who wish to change only need to cancel their contract with the other members of Rothbardia (secceed) and create his own laws or sign up with Obamia if he so desires.