Seriously?
John James,
this guy did this exact same thing to me, twice
So it is not suprising that he did the same thing to you.
I moved to NH for the FSP. Sure, there are other places with more job opportunities, more affluence, and better weather. Those places don’t have high concentrations of people trying to maximize liberty.
Really the question is about whether you believe having a bunch of minarchists and ancaps in a small geographical area is more effective than having them spread out. I think it is, so I moved. If anyone knows of any place else attempting this same strategy (Wyoming comes to mind), let me know.
As an aside, NH feels like there’s less DC influence than other places I’ve lived (namely, most of the East Coast).
I would be very interested to hear from you. Would you mind creating a thread to share you experience? Others in NH could share as well. I’d be interested to hear
- what exactly it was that got you to move,
- how you went about doing it,
- difficulties you came across,
- how long you’ve been there,
- things you’ve seen/experienced so far,
- things you’ve done as far as participation in FSP and related activities,
- differences you’ve noticed (good and bad) compared to other areas you’ve lived
- your overall feeling of the movement, the area, and you decision
Really the question is about whether you believe having a bunch of minarchists and ancaps in a small geographical area is more effective than having them spread out. I think it is, so I moved. If anyone knows of any place else attempting this same strategy (Wyoming comes to mind), let me know.
Thanks for proving my points. Yes NH feels much freer than elsewhere. I can’t see anywhere else gaining any more liberty. NH isn’t perfect (example: huge property taxes and number of regulations/mandates vary from town to town) but it’s sure better than anywhere else I’ve been.
You really do just hear whatever you want to hear don’t you. And do you even live in New Hampshire?
NH is not the most liberty friendly place I’ve been. For example, even China is more free with regards to food preparation and serving. However, I’ve never been anywhere with so many ancaps and other people who put liberty as such a high priority.
Maryland and Delaware are much more affluent, but I believe a significant portion of that is due to the debt and inflation spurred industries. New Hampshire seems to have less quality properties, but ones which are owned outright rather than mortgaged (from my unscientific observations). On the other hand, those from MD and DE seem to have a more capitalist mindset (acquiring capital, savings, and identifiying market needs). I’ll try to make a thread with a more detailed analysis once I get some time.
If you wish to see how a stateless economy functions, come to porcfest in the summer. It’s like heaven for a rothbardian anarchist.
Ian Freeman makes a good case for moving to NH.
There is twice as big population in Nevada than in NH, which means that FSP would have to douple their goal for movers. Maybe it would be easier in the end if so many libertarian hate NH-weather. I’m not sure how much there is leftists in Nevada so I can’t say anythinh about that neither. But what is the main reason for keeping FSP to not change their location to Nevada? Because project has been on for 10 years and I’m quite sure that you understand this.
But John James, say an alternative strategy for FSP if it sucks 
Uh (a) I never said “it sucks”. And (b)…I did “say an alternative strategy” (which you spent the entirety of your post futilely trying to refute): if your goal is to get people to pack up and move their life to another state, pick a state people are more likely to want to move to.
So, you have no idea how many people would move for the FSP if it were located somewhere other than NH, and you have no idea what the political climate of Nevada is…but you have no problem dismissing my question. Niccccce.
Actually, I wasn’t aware the FSP has been trying for a whole decade to get 20,000 to move to New Hampshire. That’s long time. I wonder why the goal hasn’t been reached yet.
I haven’t followed your entire discussion so I didn’t notice that Nevada actually was your alternative strategy, I just thought it was some brainstorming.
After Nevada was brought up I just wrote down some thoughts which were first on my mind. I’m quite open for new ideas, maybe I wrote my post little wrong because I’m not totally against Nevada. I have many times thought that maybe there should be two FSP, East and West, because I have heard so many complains about NH weather. I don’t like the idea of keeping only one FSP and saying to participants “OK let’s pack, we’re going to Nevada now”, because as I said it has been on going for 10 years and I think it might be easier to star new Western-FSP than trying to convince the old, “Eastern”-FSP to move.
So, why not both?
EDIT: http://forum.freestateproject.org/index.php?topic=927.0 As I thought, Nevada was eliminated because of too big population, if someone wanted to know about it.
You tell me. I’m not the guy who started a thread asking why don’t people move to NH.
There is twice as big population in Nevada than in NH, which means that FSP would have to douple their goal for movers.
If it had been up to me, I would have raised the goal to 50,000 libertarian-minded people to NH. I’m not going to criticize the project but my only critique is that the 20,000 number, even for a state as small as NH, seems a bit low. Though the 900 liberty activists here already are making a huge impact on state politics. The in-the-system activists have captured the state house and are on their way towards carrying out pro-liberty policies.
Maybe it would be easier in the end if so many libertarian hate NH-weather
I’ve lived in NH-style weather before. The heatwave is going to start hitting us tomorrow. Snow isn’t bad if you know how to deal with it as most people in NH do, or eventually learn.
I’m not sure how much there is leftists in Nevada so I can’t say anythinh about that neither. But what is the main reason for keeping FSP to not change their location to Nevada? Because project has been on for 10 years and I’m quite sure that you understand this.
Nevada would have nothing on NH. Nevada’s unemployment rate is way higher than NH’s so it would be harder finding a job. NH also has a history of being a haven for liberty-lovers.
Actually, I wasn’t aware the FSP has been trying for a whole decade to get 20,000 to move to New Hampshire. That’s long time. I wonder why the goal hasn’t been reached yet.
The FSP didn’t get any publicity until Russia Today reported on it two years ago. In that two years FSP participation grew very high.
One more thing.
My point was that some libertarians love sun more than small add-ons to their freedom and fighting for liberty in snow, and it’s a fact which cannot be changed. I would move to NH if I’d live in US, but there is many heat-lovers who wont.
Only thing which is compared between states is not only which one is more libertarian. There is other things too, and I think the case is pretty closed for Nevada…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nevada#Demographics
“According to the 2006 census estimate, Nevada is the eighth fastest growing state in the nation”
New Hampshire is #45, and is 6th lowest. It also has half of Nevadas population, so I think that heat-lovers must find some other state. OR they must be able to defeat Nevadas growth.
Because they sure blew that 20,000 goal right out of the water didn’t they.
Oh heavens no! A heatwave with average temperatures of 80 degrees Farenheit. That’s hell if I’ve ever heard of it.
Living blind isn’t bad if you know how to deal with it as most blind people do, or eventually learn, too. Doesn’t mean people prefer it.
My point was that some libertarians love sun more than small add-ons to their freedom and fighting for liberty in snow, and it’s a fact which cannot be changed. I would move to NH if I’d live in US, but there is many heat-lovers who wont.
Only thing which is compared between states is not only which one is more libertarian. There is other things too, and I think the case is pretty closed for Nevada…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nevada#Demographics
“According to the 2006 census estimate, Nevada is the eighth fastest growing state in the nation”
New Hampshire is #45, and is 6th lowest. It also has half of Nevadas population, so I think that heat-lovers must find some other state. OR they must be able to defeat Nevadas growth.
The other problem with Nevada is the number of statists from California and New York who retire there. It’s like Florida in that way. Now that the baby boomers are retiring you can be sure that Nevada’s population will start increasing way faster than NH’s (unless of course more people are attracted to liberty and the FSP and join us) and that will make it hard for any kind of “fringe” political migrants to have a noticeable effect. One of the reasons why the 900 liberty activists in NH have done so well so far is because most NH towns have such a small population that it’s easy to get involved in town and state decision-making. Some of the liberty activists who were elected into the state house last year did so with only a few hundred votes.
Do you have any data showing this number of “statists from California and New York” who retire to Nevada? I’m curious why someone who has lived their adult years in arguably the best climate in the country would retire to a desert. Generally when people are no longer tied down by a job and young children they move to a more preferred climate, not a lessor one.
And as for New York, I know people who eventually move out of the city and go upstate or go south to the Carolinas or Florida, but they stay on the east coast for the most part. I’ve never in my life heard of a New Yorker retiring to Nevada.
Because they sure blew that 20,000 goal right out of the water didn’t they.
Because movements don’t grow overnight. So far the FSP has 11,000 people signed up (over half their stated goal) and 900 have moved and the ones who have moved have succeeded in taking steps towards a voluntary society within NH.
Living blind isn’t bad if you know how to deal with it as most blind people do, or eventually learn, too. Doesn’t mean people prefer it.
I would sacrifice a few comforts for a little more liberty any day. How is the weather in NH worse than the weather in most other states? Minnesota gets blizzards. Illinois gets extreme patterns of hot hot summers/freezing winters. Even Tennessee has its fair share of bad weather.