Steubenville Case/Rape Culture

There are rapists and there are nonrapists. There are apologists of rape and nonapologists of rape. “Rape culture” lacks clarity and is essentially a meaningless phrase. If there is only one rapist in an entire city, is there a rape culture? What if there are 50 rapists? 100? It’s irrelevant. What is a fact is that there exists a rapist.

Look at it this way, there are gamers and nongamers. Gamers can be divided into subsets such as pc gamer and console gamer. If we say there is a gamer culture, we are clearly talking about the culture of gamers. What we are not talking about is the culture of their parents and coaches and teachers and other nongamers.

There are Jews and nonJews. There are Mexicans and nonMexicans. There are Germans and nonGermans. When we talk about Jewish culture, or Mexican culture, or German culture, we are talking about the culture of those specific groups, whatever their culture may be. When we talk about Southern culture, we are not talking about the culture of New Englanders.

But in the case of rape culture, we are not talking about the culture of rapists, because there basically isn’t one. Rapists do not have meeting houses, their own food, customs, etc. When there are gang rapes, notice that these people are already part of gangs, and raping is not their defining feature. It is an aspect of their gang in general.

When we talk about “rape culture”, we are talking about rapists, but we are mostly talking about nonrapists who somehow contribute to the existence of rape. It’s absurd the way claiming that the wealth of the white middle class is responsible for the crime in a poor black community. The only people responsible are the criminals who violate their victims.

Just imagine the outrage if someone were to say there is a culture of theft or murder or crime in general in a black community. Ha! Suddenly that person is painted as a racist because, guess what? Not every black is a criminal in a high crime neighborhood. What does it even mean to say that there is a culture of crime? Does that mean that everybody tolerates or condones crime? Half the population? A quarter? One percent?

And in the case of America in general, almost every person tolerates or condones aggression. Do we have a culture of aggression? Are we a culture of violence? Do I contribute to aggression? I experience no violence in my everyday life. The only aggression I “experience” is the indirect aggression of state taxes. I have never been beaten or arrested by a cop. I have never even been pulled over by a cop. Most people experience only voluntary interactions in their everyday life, and it would be absurd to say that America has a culture of aggression. And if we are going by tolerance as a metric, as the wikipedia page demonstrates, what about North Korea? The North Koreans tolerate aggression by the fact that they haven’t overthrown their government. Do we say that North Korea has a culture of aggression? What the fuck does that even mean? The North Korean state aggresses against its people and suddenly theirs is a culture of aggression?

No. There are certain people in North Korea that perpetrate aggression, and to start blaming the citizens for this “culture of aggression” because they “tolerate” it is fucking absurd and nonsensical.

It’s the same with this rape culture nonsense. There are rapists and nonrapists, rape apologists and rape nonapologists. There are despicable people who cover up crimes. Extending rape culture to people who have nothing to do with the rape is absurd. You wouldn’t say to a nonJewish security guard at a Holocaust museum that he is part of the Jewish culture, because, after all, he is tolerating and condoning Jews. People like to say that everyone is Irish on St. Patrick’s day, but guess what? It just ain’t fucking true. Only the Irish are Irish. Maybe you can join their culture, whatever that may be, but tolerating and condoning an Irish holiday does not make someone part of the Irish culture.

Rape culture is a phrase that is so broad that it covers basically everything. Seriously, sexual objectification is a defining example of rape culture? What the fuck? Every guy who has a dick sexually objectifies the objects of his desire, and since most guys are heterosexual, that just happens to be women. But seriously, what the fuck?

The only way I could possibly see rape culture as a useful term is if it described specifically only rapists and rape apologists. If it’s used for anything other than that, which it is, then it’s a meaningless phrase, because it doesn’t offer any meaningful distinctions.

gotlucky when people talk of culture they are talking of just that, culture, and what may be the cultural values and views of said people. When people talk of rape culture they are talking about the views of a culture in regards to rape, and it’s various off shoots that can define rape culture which also includes sexism and patriarchy. It’s a worldview people have towards rape. This is what people mean by culture. It’s not a black and white ideal of “gamers and nongamers” because that does not represent a worldview.

What do we mean by rape culture? The views of a culture that surround and view rape in a light that make it more tolerable and sympathetic towards the crime and shaming towards the victim. You don’t have to be a rapist to hold views towards rape. The problem is that in our culture, obviously as seen in this recent case and in the media, people rather pity and feel bad for rapists and condemn the raped. This is what takes place in our culture.

Every guy who has a dick sexually objectifies the objects of his desire, and since most guys are heterosexual, that just happens to be women.

I disagree, but I’ll speak for myself on this. Otherwise, am I out of place here? Have I breached some barrier of abstract thought?

Am I the only one feeling this?

When people talk of rape culture they are talking about the views of a culture in regards to rape, and it’s various off shoots that can define rape culture which also includes sexism and patriarchy.

Ridiculous feminist bullshit detected.

@Bert

Lol. Wat?

DISCLAIMER: I have not looked ath this specific video. I do not know specific details about the case. My comments are general. I do have compassion for this young girl and I give her the benefit of the doubt of being a victim.

I am a big cynic over these matters.

sex + alcohol = impaired function = regrettable sex

If it is happening at a party, it does not take long before you get an orgy going.

Sorry but I think most of the Rape Culture is a smoke-screen for hoardes of women who have to live the rest of their lives NOT KNOWING whether they consented to her own public degredation or not. It is nothing more than their coping mechanism.

And you use the phrase in a meaningless way. Sexism, patriarchy, sexual objectification, etc., all cause rape. That is meaningless. Even racism doesn’t cause murder or assault. H. L. Mencken is supposed to have held some racist views, for instance his view about Jews, but in the end, not only was he a classical liberal who despised aggressive acts based on these views, he also believed that Roosevelt should have let all the Jewish refugees into America. And of course, we all have read the stories about black taxi drivers who discriminate against young black men because they are prejudiced against them. The liberal establishment flips out when people point this out, especially if a white person does it or even worse, a white taxi driver.

Lots of kids like to shoplift, does this mean we have a culture of theft? How many kids are actually shoplifting in proportion to the rest of them? If some kids go shoplift and their friends tolerate it or condone it, is that a culture of theft? Does an entire town or city now have a “theft culture”? What about the parents who want to cover up the crime so as to protect their children? Does that make them part of a culture of theft? Or does that just make them parents who want to protect their children from outside danger?

In the case of Steubenville, the crime wasn’t theft but rape. So now whatever parents that want to protect their children are now a part of rape culture? Really? How is that a useful distinction, when it’s far more likely that they are just parents who don’t want their children to go to jail or have their future ruined? They are parents! That doesn’t make their actions moral, but to say that they condone rape is hilariously absurd. At best you can say that they tolerate it only because they prefer their children’s wellbeing over that of another’s. This completely misses the reasons as to why these parents did what they did. It’s not like they are all joking and laughing over their sons’ crimes. “Haha, very good son! I hope you raped her hard!”

Yeah, because that is clearly why their parents defended them.

Furthermore, how many people were actually a part of the rape or covering it up? Anonymous released the names of some other individuals involved to some degree, and it’s not that many. But let’s be liberal with the numbers and say that 100 hundred people were involved in the rape and coverup that followed. Okay, well, the population of Steubenville is 18,000 people. That is .55% of the population, and you are saying that there is a rape culture in Steubenville? That the general attitudes of the population of Steubenville tolerates or condones rape? Really? All the people who go about their lives not thinking about crime in general on a regular basis are all tolerating and condoning rape? Less than one percent of a population involved means that the entire city tolerates and condones rape?

So you get some jackasses on TV that pity the rapists. Suddenly all their viewers agree? What’s especially absurd about this idea of rape culture is that all the people who helped cover up the rape had something to gain by doing so. Certain invididuals stood to gain financially, while others gained from not going to prison or having their loved ones go to prison. Guess what? This happens with all sorts of crimes! People steal and cover it up. People murder and cover it up. People commit crimes and cover them up! And you think rape is any different? It’s a criminal act, and criminals, their friends, and their relatives will help cover it up. That’s what criminals do!

You want to minimize the amount of rapes? Then teach the golden rule to others. Rape is hardly the only crime committed in America, and if you don’t preach a solid moral foundation, but instead teach that pornography is wrong because of sexual objectification or some other bullshit, then you are not going for the actual cause of rape, which is plainly that the rapist clearly doesn’t care about respecting others. Bitch about sexual objectification all you want, but in the end, that is not the cause of rape any more than Ocean’s Eleven is the cause of theft.

Have you even noticed the trend of Hollywood objectifying men? Daniel Craig? Brad Pitt? Or even worse…Robert Pattinson? Is this a problem? Should we bitch at all the gay men, teen girls, and women in general for objectifying these men? What about the female rape culture? After all, they sexually objectify men, and we all know that is the leading cause of rape…

Even better than Ocean’s Eleven, we’ve all seen Disney’s Aladdin, and if you haven’t, then you are an unfulfilled human being. I guess Disney is part of the theft culture for not just tolerating theft, but condoning it!

I’m just lolling at the irony of “Bleeding Heart” Libertarians being outraged at the idea that some people might find it a bit sad that these young men are now official sex offenders.

Did “rape apology” come into play during the Duke rape case? But we can’t be admitting that the media is anti-white, can we, Mr. Zwolinski?

Buzz,

Bert already handwaved away false rape accusations from Clayton’s post. Somehow he doesn’t think it’s relevant.

No that’s just silly. You think women who have sex at parties invented “rape culture” theory? They didn’t.

No, it is about elitism. Being able to sneer at and preach to the (male) masses over their supposed shocking inadequacies. It is very empowering to imagine most men are scum. It lends you a sense of righteousness and superiority. Thus enter “rape culture”. Like white = racist, male = rapist. Of course most men aren’t actual guilty of rape, ergo the helpful concept of cultural rapists. And what’s extra delicious about “rape culture” is that anyone who argues against there being such a bizzare thing is naturally guilty of prolonging it and therefore exposes himself to be one such cultural rapist.

I also note how these ridicilous people with bizzaro-left sensibilities claim egalitarianism but spend most of their time sneering at the masses or setting themselves up above them.

Bert’s most recent reply to Gotlucky is where this thread ended. Bert sounds religious on this matter. Maybe his rejection of statism created a vaccuum for nonsense like this - that’s the only theory I can come up with.

That’s a good effort gotlucky, but the more and better arguments you put forward the more you prove that rape culture is alive and well. If you will argue against it with such force it only proves culture of rape is extremely-well entrenched and difficult to dislodge. And the more sophisticated arguments you present against it the more it proves it is extremely widespread, being cultivated even by otherwise sensible and thoughtful people.

You only prove it is urgent we put everyone (or every male) into anti-rape culture therapy/class/sessions ran by powerhungry weirdo-leftists with an extreme desire to wave their bibles at the masses. (Note how similar to fanatical preachers these people really are. Like other fanatics they insist the natural state of man is sinful and abhorent, and that man must make immense, unlikely effort to overcome his present, extremely wretched state, to come to approach something vaguely decent.)

“Bert’s most recent reply to Gotlucky is where this thread ended. Bert sounds religious on this matter. Maybe his rejection of statism created a vaccuum for nonsense like this - that’s the only theory I can come up with.”

What part of Bert’s response sounded religious?

Well played, Marko.

http://www.underthegunreview.net/2013/03/18/henry-rollins-comments-on-steubenville-rape-verdict/ :

Courtesy of Henry Rollins:##### "It is obvious that the two offenders saw the victim as some one that could be treated as a thing. This is not about sex, it is about power and control. I guess that is what I am getting at. Sex was probably not the hardest thing for the two to get, so that wasn’t the objective. When you hear the jokes being made during the crime, it is the purest contempt.

So, how do you fix that? I’m just shooting rubber bands at the night sky but here are a few ideas: Put women’s studies in high school the curriculum from war heroes to politicians, writers, speakers, activists, revolutionaries and let young people understand that women have been kicking ass in high threat conditions for ages and they are worthy of respect.

Total sex ed in school. Learn how it all works. Learn what the definition of statutory rape is and that it is rape, that date rape is rape, that rape is rape."

Also, gotlucky, you should check yourself into an asylum. It’s only a matter of time before that innate urge buried deep in your psyche from years of complacency to rape culture wretches its way into your brain, forcing you to brutally rape every woman you see. Oh shit… I think I just might have trivialized rape… I guess I’ll be joining you :frowning:

Relevant:

“How often misused words generate misleading thoughts!” -Herbert Spencer

Neo, his failure to substantiate his major claims. His definition of rape culture is mushy and unproven as existing in the US. He hasn’t cited anything of substance to support his case. No numbers, nothing in the legal system, no theoretical distinctions which would prove the existance of a significant rape culture. It’s typical feminist unfalsifiable bullshit.

++++++++++++++1 Marko

Clayton -

well its scripted for one thing. secondly, since when did libertarians forget about the injustice of incarceration? what makes any of it “rape culture”?

the part where the crime is the effect of a culture rather than an act performed by individuals is collectivist. if Bert had considered this issue through the lens of methodological individualism we would be discussing solutions instead of “culture.”

thats probably because I thought we were discussing rape, rape culture, and the steubenville case.