The Second American Civil War

Miscellaneous Current Events
1

I was just on the CFL site and read a letter from Gov. Mark Sanford of SC. By the tone, governors and states are getting fed up with the bailouts. Could this be the impetus of a new civil war?

I would hope that several states would declare independence from the U.S. if Congress approves more bailouts and if the Senate approves this new world central bank, which I am sure the G20 is talking about.

And recently it does seem as though there are or could be several factions that could lead to a new succession movement: Homosexuals protesting the income tax, pro-free market, fear of Obama killing the 2nd Amendment, libertarians/Austrians, fiscal conservatives, constructionists, bailout opponents, anti war and small government advocates, anti- globalizationists, central bankers, welfare statist, hawks, nationalists,internationalist, protectionist, radical Christian Right/ cultural conservatives, socialists, extreme secularists, blind Obama followers, legislative judges, taxers and statists.

If just one state will declare succession, I see a whole movement towards that happening across the states. We are in dire straits and just elected a president some people have rational and irrational fear about. If the Democrats get a filibuster proof majority in the Senate, they will be unstoppable. I believe that most governors are Republicans. This is going to create massive hostility. Some factions may be quelled by liberal legislation, but it will come down to the argument of state’s rights again. Gay marriage will be akin to slavery. And I can see Obama calling for a peacetime draft, to " rebuild our broken military"

Just when we thought it could not get worse, it just may.

P.S. Do we always elect inexperienced statists from Illinois who opposed a previous war( mexico,Iraq) in times of crisis?

2

I found this image quite interesting. I figured it was related.

http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/2595/27549774qn6.png

3

I don’t know if it’s fair to call them inexperienced. Both Lincoln and Obama spent the bulk of their professional careers with their teeth firmly clamped onto the public teat.

4

I am curious.

Did Obama take any economic classes while he was in Harvard?

5

It`s incredible how much you underestimate the leviathan. There is absolutley no chance for any secession in the foreseable future. And as for civil war… are you having a laaarf???

6

The leviathan is rotten at the core, and the economy from which it leeches is falling apart.

Several states are seriously considering secession, as are smaller areas independent of their states. Not only that, but individuals are quietly withdrawing their support through the counter-economy. If enough areas peacefully secede at once, what are the Feds going to do? Invade their own country to try to smash a polycentric movement? Perhaps they’ll try, as the Soviets did. If they don’t, they will invite others to follow. But if they do, they will completely undermine their legitimacy. And if they start killing, they’ll have a full-fledged revolt on their hands. This isn’t the age where people don’t know what happens on the other side of the country.

And how, exactly, are they going to pay their soldiers when a trunk full of bills won’t buy their soldiers’ families a day’s worth of food? Because that condition will be upon them sooner rather than later.

7

http://usoutofvermont.com/

http://www.boston.com/news/local/vermont/articles/2007/06/03/in_vermont_nascent_secession_movement_gains_traction/

8

Why would the U.S. consider secession, especially now that most Americans finally feel they have a chance to put their country back on track, and optimism is starting to get a hold?

9

Ugh, read above!?

-Jon

10
11

Gianfranco Miglio in his book (not available in English) L’Asino di Buridano (Buridanus’ Donkey) hypothesizes that one of the very few possibilities of liberation from the rotten Nation-State is “local” and “central” governments fighting over resources. In short both heads of the hydra would try to get the larger cut and tear each other to pieces in the process. Miglio himself admits that is a very remote possibility and I strongly suspect he wrote this passage out of sheer desperation about the future.

Why are governors so “fed up” with bailouts? Basically they are saying “Hey, how about us? We have been faithful servants, where’s our cut?”. Neither Bush nor Obama nor McCain talked about a “rescue” package for local governments: it’s all about banks, automakers, agricultural companies… Yet local governments have the D.C.'s most faithful allies all along, always executing the master’s orders perfectly and satisfying each and every whim: they learnt long ago that it’s better not to infuriate the soldiers in blue coats.

Be sure that they will get their cut, though governors will grumble about how “pitiful” it is, though they’ll have to wait in lie quite a bit… early bird gets the worm.

12

Aren’t his academic records, like all of his records sealed? I have to laugh at Americans. So many are desperate for a savior, they give a guy the keys to the world’s largest nuclear arsenal, without even asking him to provide ID and his college transcripts. lol

13

But at least it’s not Bush!!!

But seriously. I think many already know of McCain’s less-than-stellar grades from the old days, whereas to doubt Obama’s record is essentially blasphemy.

14

Because the track on which those Americans want to put this country is tyranny. And because optomism is dangerous when it pertains to utopianism.

I don’t want to save the US government. I want the US government to shrivel up and die, or at the very least leave me the hell alone. Secession is one of the means by which that might be achieved.

15

Soviet Union was dissolved by the Russian Federation. Jelcin gained the upper hand against the Coup, but he was stil just a president of the RF, thus he could only legaly get ridd of Mikhail Gorbachev by eliminating his post by dissolving the Union. An American counterpart would be Washington DC telling all the states to take a hike an fend for themselves. A big fat chance of that happening.

Not to mention USSR consisted of various nationalities.

It is not so much the states thar are considering secession, but a minority of peple within some states.They seem powerless to actualy carry it out for the foreseable future.

A crisis doesn`t have to mean anything. The last time USA went through a depression the leviathan grew in leaps.

Just like when they shot all the people at Waco? What about the time after Katrina when the national guard was getting ready to go in and start shooting? How many voices were raised to say what they were saying was insane?

16

I have no doubt that if there is a state that secedes, the government and many others will be quick to blame it on racism towards the idea of a black president.

17

It seems that the consequences of secession were kind of spelled out about 145 years ago or so… And that was when the ideas of states’ rights and decentralised government were popular amongst the masses. I don’t think secession is realistic.

18

Blah, blah, defeatism, blah blah gloom and hopelessness, blah blah.

Things are not the same as they have always been. The freedom of information we have is many-fold what it was during even Katrina, much less during the first Depression. People actually CARE about things like the trouble with central banking now, and more people than ever are interested in Austrian economics and liberty in general.

On the other hand, if it’s as bad as you think, then we’re all doomed no matter what we do, so at least we shouldn’t take it sitting down. I for one am not going to go around with my head down, simpering and pleading for every inch of liberty.

19

You know the state’s grasping at straws when they jail a man for 93 days because he let his tennants have a couch on their lawn and he sat down too slow.

I think the gloom and doomers have an elevated view of the state, as some monstrosity that cannot be defeated. It’s akin to statists who worship the state as a god, just reversed.

20

145 years ago, half the country tried to leave in one big, centralized, bureaucratic political mass. And they picked a fight by firing on a Federal fort. And they almost won, anyway.

If a few states secede (and resist the temptation to fire on fort Sumner), the FedGov won’t have a good excuse for invading them. And besides, as people here ought to know better, the government is damn near broke. How would they fund such an operation? Do you think they’d close down their dozens of foreign bases? Not bloodly likely. Would they end the welfare state? Don’t make me lol. And without provocation, why do you assume that American soldiers would be willing to fire on peaceful American citizens? Sure, some will, but I think mass defection would be likely.

And besides, the secession need not be State secession at all. If hundreds or thousands of small areas secede, the situation will be quite different. Especially if, as seems likely, the secession is not political, but economic.