@NonAntiAnarchist, basically every VP person on how their system would work:
“Science, hur durr!”
Great, he is making more of the right arguments this time. The zeitgeist people will ignore that one.
Stefan is so fricking nice though, “Peter is great”. Get a room!
Anyone else find it ironic that The Zeitgeist Movement Official has a Communications Team? I thought they didn’t believe in the the division of labor.
One small criticism; he should spend a little bit more time explaining why it’s important to explain the planned economy critique a bit more. The nutcases from VP will just say ‘he’s not understanding the paradigm shift!!!’
That’s pretty much exactly what he needed to do, although I wish it was a bit longer so he could more thoroughly cover the topics and apply them more directly to the Venus Project.
As a side note, I roped one of the Youtube commenters into a quick email discussion, as soon as I brought up a few of the points that Stef talked about here, he responded with this:
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Believe it or not i hade 4 paraghraphs of stuff for you to read, and i just went over your conclusion about the VP again, and honestly I would be wasting my energy with responding.
It seems like you made up your mind and im sorry but i did all i can do with the capacity of info i had, but i must be moving on.
the next message coming from another youtube member wants to bicker with me about “what is a stray cat gonna do in a RBE” are you fucking kidding me? lol… but i digress
Your best off going to the zeitgeist forum and post this question up for many to check out and respond. I wish for the best , but cant help you. so have a nice life
and ‘NO’ this doesn’t mean im running away from you, Just simply pointing out a better direction that can probably give you what your looking for.
I was respectful and straightforward, he just ducked out. Hopefully I made him think a little. I shot him the old “I, Pencil” picture too, heh.
I dont see why its our obligation to educate the zeitgast people.
Are they planning on forcing this on everyone?
Are they planning on forcing this on everyone?
That was Stef’s main issue, Peter didn’t answer.
It’s amazing, PJ spent over 48min responding and most of his answer is inconsistent.
I pray for those who actuallly agree with PJ 48 min video.
Drew Brando, it will be impossible anyway for them to force it on anybody.
Capitalism never required people to believe in anything. You have to be a syndicalist to live in syndicalist society, an agrarian to live in an agrarian society, but there is no ideology of choice that ever runs under capitalism. And even if there were, it would not be essential to keep capitalism going.
Democracy?
The Zeitgeist movement is F’in crazy and the new movie now has almost 2 million views. It seems as if overcoming the emotional appeals of Marxism never ends.
[quoteuser=“EmperorNero”]
Great, he is making more of the right arguments this time. The zeitgeist people will ignore that one.
Stefan is so fricking nice though, “Peter is great”. Get a room!
[/quote]
I had to roll my eyes when he blew that kiss at the end…
Besides Stefan’s flamboyancy that was one of the better videos I’ve seen from him.
Eventually they’ll have to force it on everybody. How else is it going to work? It’s fricking central planning!
Planner: “Hey iron mine 54, send one ton of iron to factory 820.”
Mine worker: “Nah… I don’t feel like doing that.”
Planner: “Ok, was just a suggestion.”
It’s mind boggling that nobody in Zeitgeist Movement thought about such a basic question as what to do with non compliant people. Or they just thought naively that everyone will just happily follow suit? Is it not sign of lack of tolerance to other ideas and/or arrogant attitude that their subjective “ought” is superrior to everyone elses?
I pushed a true believer and got this response (yes in ALL CAPS),
“NO WE"LL LET YOU DO WHAT YOU WANT! BUT WE KNOW THAT YOU WILL LEAVE OUT YOUR SCARCITY BASED MEASELY LIFE AND JOIN THE LIFE OF ABUNDANCE! GET IT? AND WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT ECONOMICALLY FREE COUNTRIES NOT FIGHTING? INDIA AND PAKISTAN? THEY"RE ECONOMICALLY FREE! THEY FIGHT! AND WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY ECONOMICALLY FREE ANY WAY? FREE MARKET? THE WHOLE WORLD IS FREE MARKET TODAY! WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT”
The intelligent ones talk with caps lock on! That’s how you know there serious!
I don’t really see how these guys are that much different from any other flavor of statist. They all share the same Hobbesian fear that people, left to their own devices, will not create social arrangements that they approve of, so therefore a state is needed (or a computer in their case) to impose what they believe to be the “correct” arrangements upon them. All the same Austrian criticisms of statism and the impossibility of interpersonal comparisons of utility fully apply here.
I just don’t get why this particular movement seems to be getting so much traction. Its goals seem so implausible on their face and its claims are so easily dismantled, and yet it claims a veritable army of internet followers. Why do people fall for these schemes again and again? Stuff like this just makes me worry that man’s evolved gullibility will always be too great an obstacle to overcome.
I poked my head into the Zietgiest forums this morning. It seems that some of them actually (hope you’re sitting down) admitted Stefan raised some good points. However, there’s also a bunch of people who are expressing confusion as to why he’d bring up “irrelevent” arguements. And of course, “we haven’t tried it with computers!” and “Doesn’t he realize that computational power is increasing at such an exponential rate?”.
Naturally, the calculation problem has nothing to do with computational power or speed, it has to do with the information problems and unknowable variables. Someone needs to tell these people about “Garbage in, Garbage out”.
The only way for people not to fall for old shit in new packaging (‘hope and change’) is when one has studied and understood economics and its implications for liberty. These kids haven’t done that, and so they fall for it. It doesn’t change what we’re doing for liberty. It just means they’re switching from one kind of statism to another.