Was there ever a country that had something similar to communism before Russia or the Soviet union?
It was Mexico. The Mexicans unfortunately for them had the period between 1910 and 1930 of “Anarcho-Socialism”, I call it Communism Lite, that kind of formed into Communism after the Lenin led revolution in Russia. In fact Stalin had Trotsky assinated in Mexico after he sought refuge there.
Wikipedia does not provide a lot of data on the subject and I can not find a better reference. It does not say if the Anarcho-Socialism folks there had a lot of success either. If you know of any Mexican history books that are available on the internet then look there. If you have a friend who can translate the Spanish then you will get even better information.
USSR was a state capitalist economy, communist-like economies existed in Free Territory in todays Ukraine, Revolutionary Catalonia, Aragon and Angalusia, and one exists today in Zapatista Chiapas in Mexico.
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State capitalist is oxymoron.
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Isn’t it wondeful to see the rats abandoning the sunken ship? When there was a veil of ignorance sorrounding what was actually going on in Russia, it was never called that dirty name, capitalist. It was true blue communism, because it was supposedly succeeding.
Only after its ignominious public collapse do you find people suddenly calling it capitalist. Find me one single person who called it capitalist before 1989. There isn’t one.
Whereas afterwards all the socialists say Russia was capitalist all along. There are a few in this forum alone who try to get away with that.
I’m fairly certain the Virginia colony in the early 17th century started out communist. Of course the word “communist” didn’t exist at the time. In that light I’m sure there has been communism well, well before relatively recent history.
“Capitalism is an economic system that is based on private ownership of the means of production and the creation of goods or services for profit.”
USSR and all states that have done complete nationalizations fit perfectly, with the private owner of everything being the state, therefore- state capitalism.
it was never called that dirty name, capitalist.
It was used by the anarchist of the First Internationale before USSR was even constituted for nationalized economies.
Otto Ruhle, Pannekoek, and many other communists used state capitalism for USSR back in 1920s.
Karl Kautsky, an orthodox marxist, called USSR state capitalism in Terrorism and Communism written in 1919
Find me one single person who called it capitalist before 1989. There isn’t one.
I suppose you will recant now?
^^This^^
EDIT: what smiling Dave said about the major claim that Russia was capitalist after its collapse.
I partially recant on the second point. Indeed the name seems to have been used by a few people early on, as you point out. So let’s modify it a bit. The description of Russia as capitalist has “gone viral” since 1989.
But “the private owner of everything being the state” is an oxymoron right there. The state is not a private person.
To the OP, in any way or on the scale of Russia? Rothbard’s Karl Marx as a Religious Eschatologist goes over communism before Marx and various failed experimental societies. Russia is not the first to experiment with communism, just the largest.
Definitely Mexico.
If you just want to talk about communes in general, they’re practically an American tradition. Plymouth colony began as a commune, almost failed economically, and prospered after switching to private ownership.
Practically the first lesson in politico-economics learn by the first American colonists was that communism doesn’t work, haha.
So what we’re looking for is free-market capitalism.
But was it not Alexander Hamilton who advocated state capitalism with his development of the “American School of Economics?”
But “the private owner of everything being the state” is an oxymoron right there. The state is not a private person.
State becomes the new capitalist, everything is the state remains private property, it just changes the owner. Socialism as a movement and communism as it’s subtype is about abolishing the capitalist concept of private property.
Communism certainly did not originate in Russia, neither the theory nor the practice.
One could argue that the first (known) communist theory was developed by Plato in “The Republic.”
As for communism in practice, there were the coercive Anabaptists, Taborites, and various other bizarre Christian-communist sects in Central Europe as early as the 15th century who didn’t only agitate but actually created communist states, albeit short-lived ones. Rothbard describes this in his “Austrian Perspective on History of Economic Thought.” Volume I, Chapter 5, Sections 5-7. The stories are really funny actually, communists going absolutely ape-shit crazy and failing spectacularly in exactly the way any non-insane person could easily predict.
EDIT: if you really want to laugh, listen to Rothbard’s lecture on the topic. Rothbard’s wit + psychotic communist antics = hilarity.
Why u hoggin’ our shit yo?
I can almost hear the russian in your voice with “…abowlishing zee capeetalist, x ,y , z! Moder Trushia vill be gloreuos agane!”
New Harmony, Indiana circa 1824 was an attempt at communal living.
Can’t make this stuff up
anymore.
State becomes the new capitalist, everything is the state remains private property, it just changes the owner. Socialism as a movement and communism as it’s subtype is about abolishing the capitalist concept of private property.
So socialists object to the capitalist concept of property, making claims to the effect that property inevitably gets concentrated in fewer and fewer hands, and this allows the big property owners to exploit the little property owners or those without any property yada yada yada…and so the solution to this problem is to give all property to a single entity. LOL
…it’s a mad mad world.
The first place to create communism? No.
The first fictional place it was created was in the writings of Plato.
The first actual place, was Europe in the Middle Ages. The first specific town I can think of is Munster lead by Jan van Leyden though I would not be suprised if someone can find an earlier example.
Middle ages? You got any literature on that?
Rothbard. “Austrian Perspective on History of Economic Thought.” Volume I, Chapter 5, Sections 5-7.
Or this Rothbard lecture:
http://mises.org/media/1605/The-Emergence-of-Communism
Also Kuehnelt-Leddihn’s book, “Leftism: From De Sade and Marx to Hitler and Marcuse”, pp. 50-58
This is the internet…we don’t cite sources here…
I dont think communism has ever existed.