“Get over it” huh? Why don’t you make me. Come on.
Eh, you’ll come to some day.
So you can’t make me “get over it”? I didn’t think so.
Now explain just what you mean by “come to” and prove that I’ll necessarily do so someday.
You’ll one day realize that we are innately tribal by nature, and that there are distinct differences among the races (and how assimilation breeds chaos).
What’s your definition of “tribal”?
What’s your definition of “race”?
What’s your definition of “assimilation”?
What’s your definition of “chaos”?
Lol, I’m done with you. I encourage you study into this on your own.
You may be done with me, but I’m not done with you. Now answer my questions.
I will only give you my definition of ‘race’. The others you can define yourself.
Race: The variance of genetic clusters (or ‘groups’) as a result of evolution.
No, you’ll give me the others as well.
How are “genetic clusters” determined, exactly?
Look into ‘heritability’ and go from there. I’m not doing this for you, lazy ass.
You’re not going to explain to me what you mean by certain words? And you call me lazy? Apparently you expect me to be a mind-reader though.
Of course people are tribal. They’re also familial (something that never gets mentioned by leftists, for some reason). But TronCat isn’t merely noting that human beings are tribal, he’s asserting that they’re born collectivists. This is ridiculous on its face. He hasn’t cited any science to back up such an amazing claim. Pray, tell, what was collectivist about the alpha male in a tribal hunting party 10kya?? I suppose the tribal elders were exactly the same as a Russian communist Soviet? After all, it’s a group of people making decisions. Groupthink. Collectivism. Proof! This is pathetic.
Exactly. Unfortunately, the cure to the cancer of the State is a pill too bitter for most people to swallow, IMO. What is it?
- Being a decent, upstanding person who isn’t an asshole to people and doesn’t have low reputation and shitty morals
- Maintaining good standing with your family, in particular, your parents and grandparents
- Viewing family assets as fundamentally inter-generational
- Passing on the inheritance in male primogeniture thus rationalizing management of the household and keeping time-preferences low
- Joining together in association with other, non-loser families into private organizations (call it a religion, a fraternity, a tribe, a clan, whatever) that:
- Provide a genetic pool from which to select mates
- Provide a large, trusted community from which to engage in division-of-labor for high-trust products, such as family advice, legal advice, financial advice, security, etc.
Basically, the Elites really are more competent than the general public and the only way out is to become more like them in the ways that they are virtuous. Unfortunately most of them have joined into this system of purposefully weakening the rest of humanity, rather than either staying neutral (the most rational option) or actively helping them. This is their chief vice and it is also sowing the seeds of their own destruction.
Clayton -
Nope, never said humans are ‘born collectivist’. I was implying that the collectives we see are a symptom of our nature ,not that it’s the only way, but it IS a natural way, and isn’t purely dictated by an ‘elite’ - people seem to want collectivism. If the ‘elite’ exists, they’re giving the people what they want.
The question is, how much of what they want is inborn vs. learned?
Along with that, what’s your definition of “collectivism”? Because if it’s something like “living in groups”, then I’d say this is non-controversial in the extreme. It’s obvious to everyone that human beings are highly social animals. This in no way constitutes a counter-argument against libertarianism in general, let alone anarcho-capitalism/voluntaryism in particular.
I now repeat my demand for you to define the other terms I mentioned previously.
it’s also so inate libertarians have debates about what legitmate property rights are.
So what? The concept of property is both innate and inherent in existence.
BTW the concept of race and a propensity to propagate one’s own genes does not imply the utilisation of collectivist means to achieve it. Sadly a lot of libertarians let the past political associations of racialism interfere with the biology behind it. They’re distinct matters.
I pretty much defined ‘tribalism’ in my other thread. ‘Assimilation’ in this context would be like all different cultures and races coming together, as like a ‘melting pot’. ‘Chaos’ is some degree of conflict among individuals or groups of individuals that could escalate to violence.
Most people are tribalistic, what are you trying to prove with this dazzling revelation? If anything, humans’ tribal tendency is an excellent reason to oppose the state and to be in favor of localism and communitarianism.
This wan’t necessarily about tribalism, it was to debunk two things:
-
We are born Libertarians
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That socio-political direction of America (or any country for that matter) is driven by an ‘elite’
Please, explain the distinction between collectivism and collective thinking.
Clayton -
‘Collective thinking’ was a stupid way to put it, I simply meant that people desire to be part of a group, or a tribe of some sort.