But who owns the land? Or is it wilderness?
Also, how will the land be divided? The whole thing might get nasty if you have a bunch of armed people homesteading land at the same time. Especially if some of the land is more valuable than others.
Frankly, I fail to see how this “colony” can consider itself “libertarian” when from the get go the SDK corporation is “in charge”. As someone else pointed out earlier. It does indeed sound like communism.
Sadly, I have to agree. The idea is great, but the execution isn’t.
First off, expecting libertarians - who are wary of authorities to begin with - to blindly trust a single PDA is not going to work. Secondly, stuff like requiring everyone to be a part of some local militia or have their property taken away, is not going to win over support. I’m not sure why you insist on that, since I’m relatively sure most colonists would be ready to defend the colony should there be a real threat.
The way I see it, you need to get a trustworthy group together who you can inform of the destination and other details. Establish a foothold and then sell the remaining land openly or something similar. The main obstacle now is the secrecy.
I was thinking about the idea a bit further and wondered if this could be executed in another way.
This is a bit iffy, but for example: secure enough land legally in a “feel-good” country. Let’s say Sweden, for example, or Norway. Colonize and declare independence. Obviously this approach needs colonists who are ready to fight. But unless my understanding of Swedish or Norwegian society is completely wrong, the politicians wouldn’t get away with a violent police/military action. Assuming it gets enough media attention.
Obviously, I haven’t worked out all the kinks.
Actually, the abortion debate from a non-religious standpoint is incredibly easy to resolve. Once you forget about concepts of animism (the soul), we can simply use the parasite argument. A fetus cannot possibly have rights since it is parasitically dependant upon its mother while in the womb. Thus, since the fetus is feeding off the mother, having not gained independance as a real human being, the fetus is only a potential human. Thus, the self-ownership and full fledged rights of the mother win the day. Here’s a good link:
http://oneminute.rationalmind.net/abortion/
I have another question regarding the confiscation of land. You said if everyone does not collectively help out, they get their land confiscated. While I understand the utilitarian principles behind collective defense of a fledling colony of 100 people, this rule is entirely unnecessary once the colony grows in size. Do you plan to eliminate this rule once a certain number of people is reached? Because the rule is unlibertarian. You should not be able to seize land. I recommend you include a clause in the contract stipulating something along the lines of “collective defense will only be mandatory until a population of X people will be reached”. The number would have to be worked out.
P.S. My firefox (2.0) works perfectly well with that forum, so I recommend you upgrade yours from 1 to 2.
Oh and what is an SDK? Is this an acronym equivalent to PDA? From what I understand, SDK is used to signify a Software Development Kit.
I seem to remember that there was another like idea and web site(?) called something like The Free State Movement. I never got into this because it lacked understanding of what freedom is - INTERNAL to each person. If you haven’t ‘got’ it for yourself, ya ain’ta gonna ‘get’ it from banning together with other wannabes in ‘A’ location. Like isn’t that what’s wrong about the ‘nation-state’ to begin with? - the concept that ‘rules’ have to be tied to physical boundaries?!? And that a ‘head’ of state is somehow the ‘keeper’ of all that is sacred supposedly by all within that area? How silly and very impractical!!
All of you who wish to do this - my best wishes! But I will be astonished if it ever gets beyond the yak yak state of being [;)]. The main reason intentional communities don’t last is that almost everyone has different intentions [:P].
Lots of luck - Jain
Could you explain why the nation state is silly and impractical. I am not well educated in these matters and would like to get a better understanding of why you feel this way, if you do not mind.
Other than the ethical and moral self-contradictions of any existent form of coercive government, the state is also impractical, meaning inefficient, because it operates as a monopoly. Education, health care, police, firefighters, the army, mandatory social security, etc. All of these industries are plagued by bureacracy and corruption.
I clearly understand that and agree but how would an individual put out a house fire without some sorta help?
I must have missed these particular questions. What forfeiture of property are you referring too? Please identify the individual rights question? Thanks
If someone is brought before the tribunal what are the rules of prosecution? Does the person have any rights to redress or the presentation of evidence to refute any claims made by said tribunal? Why if one leaves do they have to forfiet there property? Why does the first year have to be dictatorial and can that be change after the first year and if so who decides it can be changed? Why do you presume to have the authority to deny a women her right to decide?
Alright, I will try and summarize answers to the various previous questions.
The essence of the Liberty Colony Colonists is a contractual one. The Colonists agree to join the Colony under a certain set of conditions. So there is no agency or individual controlling the Colonists. There is no forfeiture of land there is simply a remedy in the contract if the Colonist fails to abide by the very minimal rules of the Colony that only exist for one year. The Colonists have already agreed to the contract by defintion so there is no injustice in the enforcement of the contract.
The issue of SDK Security having the ability to move across the Colony is a very simple contractual easement. The Colonists agree in advance under the circumstances outlined that those security forces have the right to move across the Colony. This of course is very practical as there may be an occasion where we can not get in touch with property owner to ask permission and need to take action. This easement is important to minimize any conflict in the Colony about such activity.
The SDK is openly committed to helping the first 200 Colonists get to the Colony. After the first 100 and then 200 the SDK will most likely be involved in helping additional Colonists come to the Colony but by then and even before then people can come to the Colony of their own accord. The SDK will be focused on a variety of other business activities in the Colony by this point.
The land of the Colony is currently vacant. The land will be divided up amongst the Colonists by the SDK Corporation upon the Colonist’s arrival at the Colony.
Abortion - We will not be able convince each other on this issue. I will post in the Liberty Colony Forum on my reasoning for outlawing abortion but suffice it to say that abortion will be illegal in the Liberty Colony. Also, abortion is not a PDA by PDA issue. Abortion will be illegal permanently in the Colony.
Collective Defense - I think I established that this is contractually based from the beginning. The reasoning is simple, I want to be sure as do all the other Colonists that we all understand our committment to each other and are openly in agreement about how we handle certain situations.
SDK doesnt stand for anything in particular.
The tribunal question is a good one. Needless to say the rules of criminal and civil procedure can be quite burdensome. Of course the defendant will have the right to redress the claims made against them. I will create a discussion thread on the Liberty Forum regarding this topic and you are welcome to help lead the discussion.
If people leave they forfeit their property because in the early stages we simply don’t have time for people that are not committed to helping get the Colony started. It is basically a case of the property being abandoned. Again, the Colonist understands going in what is expected during that first year.
After the first year Colonists can either renew their contract with SDK or not. We are establishing a free society from the very beginning. Don’t confuse having contracts mutually agreed upon that help create order with being dictatorial.
I am creating a forum category at the Liberty Colony for further discussion of this but abortion will be illegal in the Liberty Colony.
Thanks again for the comments.
How could one contractually consent to having someone else taking their life under a three person tribunal with no appeal rights?
Ignoring the obvious contradiction between outlawing abortion but promoting capital punishment that is.
I also think that under the current conditions of participation you are going to end up the subject of a movie; 100 colonists went into the woods…one survived, this is her story.
I mean, come on, expecting people to go into the wilderness blind?
What about cattle, the climate, what grows there? Are the natives a lost tribe of cannibals? What is the plan to acquire food after the initial 60 days? I’m no farmer but I do know it takes a while to clear land and get your first harvest.
Housing materials? Tool acquisition? Advanced technology like solar or wind power—you ain’t going to fit that in a duffle bag.
Local national government? Once they discover a new source of revenue do you plan on fighting them off or submit to their authority? Is the local mayor’s second cousin who has a thing for skinny blond white girls also subject to the death penalty for rape?
There’s a whole lot of ‘operational security’ and basically no real information being disseminated. Seriously, you claim to have been in the army, what mission is undertaken without the lowest private having enough information to complete the mission in the absence of their chain of command?
Not to be overly critical or anything…
lets not worry about all that, its in the contract.
What happens to the woman who decides to go to the next town “outside” the colony and get an abortion?
Who owns the land that is going to be occupied and divided up? What happens when you run out of land to use? What if they locals decide they don’t want you there?
The SDK security force is put together by locals or will be brought to the colony as well?
I would like to see the sample contract that a potential colonist is signing.
People can sign contracts to what they are willing to agree on. That is the essence of a free society. As far as appeal rights, appeal to whom? In any system of administration of justice there has to be a termination of the process.
Regarding the Liberty Colony having to deal with real world issues, well that’s the real world, there are real risks.
The question about livestock is a good one and I will add something about that on the site. In general cattle, goats, and chickens are the most prevalent and will be able to be purchased within the local area.
Housing materials and tools are available in the area as the area is not uninhabited. The site also states that you will be able to ship additional supplies after your arrival in the Colony.
The point of choosing an area that is dysfunctional is to avoid conflict with existing governments.
Operational Security is necessary and I am sure there were times in the military where even in training that the full details of the operation were not given until you were enroute to the destination. This isn’t any different.
I think that addresses the issues you mentioned.
The rules of the Liberty Colony for abortion apply to the Colonists of the Liberty Colony.
The land is unoccupied and will be divided up upon arrival.
When the Colony expands it will be by either using unoccupied/abandoned land or by purchasing land.
What if they locals don’t want us there? What if the locals don’t want you where your at now? You will have the same options.
The SDK security force is composed of locals.
The sample contract is on the site and is what is agreed to when the Colonist volunteers.
The difference is that I own the land that I am at now. Whereas you have yet to let us know if this land is owned by someone or not.
You also still have not answered my question as to what happens to the woman who is a colonist but goes outside the colony to get an abortion. What’s the punchiment?