Thanks for the response Danno and to all of the others as well. I know some of you have shown a desire to make me the enemy and I think some of you regardless of the opportunity for freedom will choose tyranny rather than risk change. However, I am interested in the success of freedom. I have listened to your concerns about the intitial proposal of the Liberty Colony and I believe that there should be some changes. I will be incorporating some of these changes which I think will address most of the issues raised here in this discussion. So stay tuned and I will launch a new thread about this with the changes in the Liberty Colony in the next few days. Thanks again.
Max
Libertycolony is something of an oxymoron, I am afraid. Here are two definitions of “Colony” in Dictionary.com:
- “any people or territory separated from but subject to a ruling power”
- “a group of people who leave their native country to form in a new land a settlement subject to, or connected with, the parent nation”
I am also afraid to say that the early US colonies were anything but havens of liberty. As is documented in Murray Rothbard’s “Conceived in Liberty” the Pilgrim Fathers ran a totalitarian and communist settlement which almost starved to death.
The big question is how do you intend to move into one of the territoritories you list? Somebody in those locals thinks they own that land already, and as someone has already mentioned on these forums, such a move would be regarded as an invasion. If you are not invading but intend to purchase land there, why do you think you will be able to define your own rules? You will have to abide by theirs.
Your website has comments like, “each person will be given 5 acres of land”. Who will give? That already smacks of paternalism which most libitarians would reject. It also smacks of the uniformity of communism. A tenth of an acre may be sufficient for one person, and 50,000 for another. It depends on what they are doing and what their set of subjective values are.
The website makes much of your military background. Whilst that shows you are likely to have certain qualities, one has to wonder if they are the right ones for individual liberty. To many of us, the military is just another an apparatus of the State, and the State is what we are against.
Anyway, I wish you well and will follow your progress with interest.
With kind regards
Remnant.
I think if you guys went to form a colony in the USA, you may only have to pay income taxes for stuff you trade with the outside. You should be able to get an exemption like the Amish and some other commune groups. It just needs to be someplace somewhat remote.
The goal is to create a free society not just avoid paying some taxes. We seek true freedom not simply to live remotely with a little less interference.
The changes you’ve made to the plan are interesting. Which places on the list do you think show the least potential for a violent confrontation? Let’s face it, a lot of these places would have no trouble massacring 200 well armed libertarians. Even third world, barely functioning governments have enough of an army for that. I’m also curios, which one of these places was your original planned destination?
Most of them seem to be in Africa. This continent has very controlling governments, and a plethora of rebelds looking to be in charge of the big government. There is not even freedom of movement, much less any economics ones. You’ll rapidly get your property confiscated there. Here in Portugal, our constitution asks for a socialist state, but that language is nothing when compared to the ones in Africa, especially former Portuguese ones, who proudly display socialist symbols in their flags. Angola in the top of the list could only be there to provoke some laughter.
South America is the land of freedom in comparison. Anyway, some indicator that is lacking is the population density, which can give a first idea of how much isolated such a colony could be. If possible, try to discount protected parks from the available land – bodies like the UN subsidise its protection so those are out of reach if you have any love for your life.
If you don’t want to have it on the USA, Mexico seems like the next best place. Not so poor as the rest of the Americas and Africa, so you don’t have to be afraid of some mob invading the place, and you don’t have the same dangerous guerrilas types. You should be able to buy any technology you need, and the government’s size is in par to a western one. Any oppresion you may suffer will be mild, and you’ll be able to cry for help from the USA. Many people tend to think of Africa as close to anarchy because of the chaos there, but their governments are the biggest and most powerful you can find anywhere in the world. That’s why you have chronic wars there, everyone wants to lead the loot.
Most of the governments try to be controlling, but they fail due to inefficiencies. Risk to property is only high, if you are having/showing to much of it and you are not paying someone who is connected. “Socialism” basically means that the inner government circles try to get a hold on the countries resources. There is however the fact that most economic activities take place on the informal markets.
You have vast portions in Africa that are sparsely populated, but there maybe good reasons for them as well like the absence of rain and rivers.Where there is lots of water Malaria and other diseases may become a problem. From the Portuguese countries Angola is more corrupt then i.e. Mozambique. Angola has got huge oil reserves, while the higher rainfall makes Mozambique more suitable for agriculture. Botswana seems to be the best place to invest in at the moment. They’ve got a low tariff and are more stable and prosperous then most other African states. Namibia is also nice, but I expect that SWAPO can cause problems as soon as an opportunity arises.
… African governments try playing the strong man, while in fact they usually aren’t. What you’d need to find is coming to an agreement with one of them over land and getting hold of means to protect that agreement.
Thanks for the comments. The places on the list were selected primarily for weak central governments and large informal economies with relatively large proportions of the population very poor. Most of the places have abundant undeveloped land available. I hope you will join in the forums and be willing to participate in the selection process. The point now is to have at least 200 people willing to participate in the process and I welcome spirited debate on the advantages and disadvantages of each potential location.
I have to disagree with your assessment of Africa as a poor choice. The possible locations in Africa generally have weak central governments and plenty of available land. Your welcome to join the discussions in the forums at the Liberty Colony.
Mexico has a very powerful centralized government and I think is a poor choice for a variety of reasons.
Africa is a good choice given the development potential and trade with usually neglected markets.
… The biggest obstacle you maybe facing is the usage of the term Liberty Colony. This may create an association with “colonialism” and lead to resentment to the project at all. And I assume that one wants to establish the project with the approval of those who right now have a political claim to the land the project is established on. I would look upon good relations with neighbours as being crucial. If they turn sour this limits trade relations with them.
What one would aim for is something like a free trade zone - Just that the inititative is more of a private nature. For claiming some land one would have to offer something of value to the present decision makers. So in a sense even corruption would be useful. The second problem would be to get them to comply with the agreement. After solving this one would have to work on the implementation.
I understand the term Colony might have some negative impact but there is nothing to say that once we have established the Colony that it needs to be called that. As far as establishing the Colony with the approval of the existing government of the proposed location…well that would be counter to the basic idea of freedom. The key is for the Colony to maintain a low profile and be able to defend itself from local bandits. I envision the Colony will not be any place that we would expect any kind of presence from whatever weak central government may exist in the area. The Colony will use undeveloped land so there is no need for someone’s approval. We must not be afraid to seek what we desire and to sell our goal short of true freedom would be a mistake.
Check out Liberia as they are a ‘colony’ of freed American slaves.
Then you can call it Colonia Liberia and not have to change your website’s URL.
Actually, after reading the wikipedia entry it really doesn’t sound like too bad of a place to live these days.
The interesting thing is, they seem to have a sort of polycentric law: one system for the “modern sector” and another for the indigenous rural tribes.
Liberia is already on the list of potential locations for the Liberty Colony.
What if they don’t?
You lose protection. And after one year in the desert, someone is going to make you his bitc-h.
I’m also a bit skeptical on that one. The initial number of settlers would be a small one. And actually this may create some problems concerning the issue of providing security related services. Alternatively one may set up a company that initially owns all land and has a contract until 2020 with all new members. After 2020 the company is resolved and others can take over.
A Liberty Colony project is a difficult one. Chosing a place is the easy part. Doing the planning, proposals, predictions, procedures is the difficult part. Som research on the issue will be needed and to be published. Don’t forget that the settlers will have to organize themselves, management by a government agency isn’t the purpose of the whole exercise.
The site has undergone substantial revisions so you should probably visit the site for updated information.
Yep, it will be challenging. Don’t forget to join in and help with at least your opinion and advice in the forums.
I’d like to do so, once I am thoroughly prepared for this. I expext having valuable information on such project in the next few weeks.