When Debating

Miscellaneous General
1

I know that some members will disagree with me, but I think that a general change in attitude amongst Mises.org forum members is needed. I’ve noticed that a lot of debates have just become dead ends, with both sides leaving in frustration. The result has been a lot of unnecessary drama. This post, by no means, is conclusive, nor am I suggesting that anybody should follow it through-and-through. This post is meant as a compilation of suggestions to make debating on this forum much more pleasant.

1. Debating is not about winning per sé, it is about persuading. If you force your opponent to stop posting out of frustration, you have not won. You may have “proven” yourself in front of like-minded individuals, but this is hardly constructive.

2. Given the above, the best way to approach an intellectual opponent is with an open-mind. You should also make sure that his mind is open. It follows that the last thing you should do is give him cause to close his mind. Therefore, when you open an argument by saying “that is borderline Keynesian”, or “that is communistic”, you have already lost the debate. Both debaters are likely to argue against walls, which will cause both to leave the debate in frustration. Believe it or not, debating is not about seeing who posts last.

3. When debating, be clear. Avoid certain “hot” words which can mean different things to different individuals. Give your argument in a clear manner, and avoid ambiguous methods of debate such as referring to a fallacy or some such. Close-ended debates will end in frustration.

4. Remember “claim-warrant-impact”.

Claim: The thesis.

Data: Evidence.

Warrant: Explanation on how the data supports the claim.

Impact: Serves as a quasi-conclusion. Ties the argument together.

5. Stay cool headed. Nothing ends an argument quicker than being hot headed. Sometimes, what I do is I read the rebuttal and I refrain from immediately posting. I get some water or something to drink and chill, and then a few minutes later open Word and type my own rebuttal. This allows me to approach the rebuttal much more calmly.

6. As aforementioned, avoid emotionally charged words (“liberal”, “Keynesian”, et cetera). These will shut your opponent off, and both of you might just as well stop the debate.

7. Take the time to properly understand your opponent’s arguments.

Like I said, these are just friendly suggestions. I think debate on this forum could be much more inspiring than it actually is. Learning how to approach one another is a good start.

2

Excellent post. I wonder if any more detail should be said about going off topic on a thread, topics that tend to lead to a heated dead end (especially tertiary topics that keep comming up), common words and tactics to avoid if one wishes to pursue productive discourse, and the best way to establish definitions clearly.

3

Great post Jonathan. I can’t count the number of times I have ducked out of a debate for many of these reasons. Some people are just not interested in actual debate, and others don’t realize that there are certain prerequisites required in order to have one.

4

The purpose of an argument is to be universal, to persuade everyone of the truth of the statement. In the pursuit of that, injuring someone’s feelings or driving them away from a debate is immaterial, and in fact it can be beneficial; their persistent denials would just obfuscate the true argument.

5

I disagree. I spit acid at you. I’m leaving this thread.[8o|]

But on the real: I have stayed out of some threads lately because of the fire being thrown.

I do have to say though that the debate on this forum is, in general, far less emotional and personal than most other forums I post on.

6

You are debating with somebody to persuade that person of your point. If you drive them away you have failed that objective. If the person you are debating is “obfuscating the true argument” then maybe you should choose a better opponent to debate with. When you insult someone it really eliminates the reputation behind your argument, and it shuts a lot of people off. I don’t mean to single you out, but your recent thread on IP is a very good example. Your opponents single-handedly lost their case by accusing you of being a “communist” or what have you, and you lost yours when you tried to refute people’s rebuttals with already stated information (it might be true, but the lack of clarity meant that what you did was cause the argument to go in circles, and at that point all parties should have agreed to disagree).

If a debate is going in circles, or is stagnating, the best course of action is to stop debating (stop replying to their posts). It does not help to insult or insinuate.

7

This classic from Monty Python demonstrates exactly how not to debate, and still brings tears to my eyes after all this time. Genius.

Regards, onebornfree

8

I asked in the thread for new arguments, and they re-hashed the old fallacies. I was obliged to point this out. It’s incorrect to say that it went in circles, it was going nowhere.

9

I did not rehash any fallacies, I asked questions.

10

You have a belligerent way of asking questions.

11

Everyone, keep the arguing on topic.

12

You have an obvious way of trolling.

13

This is what I’m talking about. If you see that your opponent is not receptive, then why respond?

14

I can give a couple reasons for not continuing a debate or thread.

  1. Goes off topic, current discussion becomes irrelevant AND boring from the initial discussion. (If it goes off topic, but the current topic is relevant and at least interesting I’ll stay in tune, or maybe I was taking part in the irrelevant conversation.)

  2. Too many replies/post. Lose track of conversation. I generally won’t even bother to view a thread I haven’t looked at yet if it’s beyond 2-3 pages. If it starts getting past 4-5 and I was taking part in it, and I’m currently not (for whatever reason) I won’t bother to view it.

  3. Becomes an endless circle. Same questions proposed while only getting half the feedback to them.

  4. Thread no longer makes sense. Combination of 1 and 2.

  5. Topic was already discussed recently. Now it’s just a revival of the last one for no reason. (Maybe because of point 2 and 3.)

  6. Complex thread with mixed answers. Personally, there are some threads that just seem “out of my league” for one reason or another. Either it’s something in depth with a topic I have no knowledge of, or I just find it useless to read or reply to it.