all fair points, however i will say that i respect you radical views of not excepting the idea of a state but i have and i dont think we can ever change this, plus my hatred of capitalism ( generalised as most western democracys) has given me the options of communism and possible socalism…
its inefective yes but would you not say its the only thing we have? and i wouldnt say its a total disaster because everything has its problems if you look hard enough doesnt it…
Cuba was quite wealthy before the Revolution actually. It had a big immigration numbers, highest per capita consumption rate in Latin America, and boasting some of the highest wages in the world.
and hwo is it communisms fault tht people are egomanics?
Why don’t you think that an anarchic society is possible?
That’s not Capitalism, that is corporatism, which I despise as well.
You don’t hate capitalism. Have you ever been bargain hunting before? Or comparison shopped? How did you get that computer you’re using? Did you just close your eyes, walk into the electronics store, and purchase the fist one you bumped into? Or did you take a look at cnet (or consumer reports, amazon reviews, etc.) first, to see which had the best features, at the best price?
That seems rather defeatist.
It’s the Communists’ fault that they try to legislate away the basic (and good) human nature of self-interest.
Can you explain specifically why you hate capitalism(not state fascism, not corporativism), but uncoerced laissez faire capitalism?
i would call it defeates as such because im not, you must admit that even good things have negative aspects and even though this is the case i have accepted it and look for the best option. i got this laptop for christmas, im glad we have something in common but can you define capitalism then?
ok right… anrachism is the idea of removal of the state am i right? well i think that total anarchy generally would not work because people are slefsh and it would lead to a chaotic society that would be a terrible place to live and have live under… how do you view it?
bcuz it means people get hurt for the sake of others. it promotes greed and hate. which then under mines morals. how is it in any way just that some people should wipe their arse with money while others starve to death.
Two things.
A) To the contrary, it has consistentlty been the most selfish people on this planet who have benefited the human race the most. Nearly all empoverished nations grow out of poverty and out of hunger due to selfish people. The selfless ones are the ones who keep them in a state of poverty.
It was a selfish man who made your laptop, yuor operating system, your home, and nearly every tangible created object you enjoy and cherish. Microsoft alone, being a profit oriented business, has massively made the entire world wealthier and increased the productivity of even the poorest in 3rd world countries.
The selfish man can only succeed by satisifying the desires of individuals. The more individuals he satisifies the more he succeeeds.
B) There is no such thing as a non-selfish man. If you choose to live your life as a philanthropist you are still doing so by your own merit, to satisfy your own merits. To argue that man are evil because they are selfish is superficial and bears no weight. For it is the selfish men who hold virtue, integrity, and generally create wealth for his neighbors around him. It is the selfless man who lives by donation.
You have been taught many things but you have never logically scrutinized your belief system.
Ultimately a selfless society is inheriently impossible for the human race. Man acts to satisfy his own ends. Even you act to satisfy your own ends. If this were not the case man would not act, he would be a robot, or an object of inaction, like a stone.
To state that man should not be selfish is to state that man should not be man, that man is evil for feeling hungry, evil for desiring shelter, evil for desiring leisure. Such an argument falls in on its face when really considered.
Please explain why you hate capitalism.
Bravo… i am impresed i can say that… however i believe that everything you have said is in a sense pointless, we all know that people are selfish its just a matter of how selfish, as in selfish wanting to live or selfish wanting to control the world… its you choice but yer i dont have the knowledge to tackle your argument im affraid… sorry… however where do you stand on the political spectrum?
I don’t think communism is the best option for achieving your goals. Speaking of, what are you goals?
Well, where did santa get it? I’m sure it wasn’t the central laptop distribution bureau.
Voluntary exchange of goods and services.
Absence of a state, yes.
If people are selfish, why would you want them to be in charge of you, if they will only look out for their best interests?
All the nations of the world interact in what is essentially an anarchic way. There is no world government.
People are selfish, and they are lazy. These two traits counteract each other, so most people would rather cooperate to get what they want, rather than fight. Also, the mob does a great job weeding out troublemakers.
Greed simply means that man has an end, and there are certain means to that end. Greed is a superficial word. Truth is greed, or desire, is the mechanism which motivates man to create wealth for himself and his neighbors. Society benefits from his greed. The only time where this is not the case is when he is allowed to compel his neighbors against their will, that is the function of a state and why it is anti-capitalistic.
An uncoerced exchange can only occur when both parities benefit. One party gives up his potato’s for another persons carrots. The one person valued the carrots more than the potato’s the other valued the potato’s more than the carrots. If this arrangement were not the case the exchange would never have taken place. Therefore it can only be concluded that during an exchange both partiies benefit, had they not benefited the exchange would never had occured.
This is the exchange axiom.
In a free society you are free not to associate yourself with those whom you find immoral.
It is generally considered poor business practice to hurt your customers. Usually in such situations those companies go out of business’s as people stop dealing with them. This is an example of the market correcting things. It’s in a business man’s best interest to please all consumers, not hate against them. But if a business man wants to hate he is welcome to, he will suffer financial consequences.
On this forum at least it’s typically helled that the people you describe are statists and coercers, who extract wealth from the producers.
Would y ou prefer that we steal by violent force from those who produce wealth for the world, and give to those who produce nothing? This is the economic model of communism, and is why communism destroys capital, destroys wealth, and general fosters an impoverished economic environment. It is the paramount of why communism cannot foster a wealthy nation. The steal from the producers, and give to the leaches.
You support violence and coercion. It’s wholly hypocritical of you to be what is or is not morality when you condone a system thats foundation is built upon violence and theft.
You describe the parasite. Economic prosperity, global wealth, can only occur when capital can be allowed to accumulate freely, meeting the desires and ends of individuals. Directed by those individuals, for the purposes they see fit. If the capitla is directed by a central authority it assumes the roll of omniscience, pretending to know what the desires/ends are of each individual on the face of the planet. No such collective body can exist, humans are not omniscient.
Most people are are against coercion. Pretty much anything short of self defense and the defense of one’s property. We characterize statists as coercers in case you have not yet noticed.
I don’t.
But if you must you can call me a Voluntarism.
my goals for life? well i grew up without a father and didnt have a male role model in my life and have wanted to join the army, i think i mite join the army for the experience but im currently stufying politics at A level, i would like to go into politics but the problem being in our modern elective ditatorship (united Kingdom) i dont have much hope with my views lol
lol i must say the santa comment made me laugh, once again i hate things but i have to put up with them, i live in a capitalist world and at my age nothing i do can change this so for now i have to put up with it…
i would rather a selfish man govern an equal society than hundreds of selfish people exploiton one another and everyone around them in our society…
Now that youve braught it up what are your aims for the future?..
and vouluntarism is?..
baxter that is the biggest load of crap i have read all night…
youn cant blaim national socalism on there defeat, they were defeated because of sheer military might against them as well as unforseen luck and a psychopathic (yet lazy) leader…
and camps do not provice fairness for all inside because they were never “fairly” put there in the first place, and everyone inside was subjected to diffrent torture and treatment depending on race, gender and attitude…
PROFITS
HI there. Seeing that you are a communist, I assume you have a deep seated hatred for profits. How can we abolish profits. and what is a profit? I think you would agree that a profit is the result of an action that changes a person’s state of condition from a less desirable state to a more desirable state for that individual. for example the grocer in charging $2.50 for a gallon of milk, which he paid $2.00 for whole sale, changes his state of affairs from a less desirable state to a more desirable state.
But also the consumer would profit from this exchange too. Unless he would like to put 10 quarters into a milk bottle and try feeding it to his child. He is clearly better of because of the trade. But because profits are manifestly evil, We should abolish all trade. It does no good to use legislation to push down the price of milk even to 1 cent because even then the consumer would profit by the exchange, if the grocer was willing to trade at all. But that is the key. Trade must be abolished to stamp out profits of greedy human beings.
But that is not all. In fact even if I am isolated in nature, and expend my efforts to pick fruit, I have still traded the oppurtunity of leusure for that gathering food. Whether or not you agree in the concept of an autistic trade, it is undeniable that I have profited by my actions. If profits are to be abhored and fought as an ultimate end, then infact all actions must be prohibited.
What is “exploitation”?
“The only way to make money on the free market is to produce what others want. The better one serves others, the more profit he earns; thus the market is grounded in mutual benefit and harmony of interests.” - David Osterfeld.