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Arguing with idiots is like a drug to me, I get addicted to it very easilly.
That forum scared the shit out of me. Really. It felt like walking through a back alley riddled with crackheads. I’m not talking about their positions, It just felt very very unfriendly. Those communists sure know how to market their ideology.
Do they actually have productive debate over there? [^o)]
The problem is they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience…
The product of their debates is like F__king a glass of water, it get your nowhere, except potentially in the hospital…
This made my night. Very interesting discussion too.
I think the only person to dislike Marxists more then I is Rothbard. [H]
They probably do, over issues that aren’t part of the shared consensus. Go against that, and you get knee-jerk reactions and emotionalism. Try registering here as an anarcho-communist, and something similar would probably happen. Staying cool while someone skewers your intellectual baby (whether they are right or wrong) can be difficult.
I want you to know… I peed a little laughing so hard…
Someone should just tell them not to worry since everything they believe about politics, religion, philosophy and social norms is really just a reflection of their economic place in the world. If their policies suck, then so must their life for according to Marx ‘Consciousness does not determine life but life determines consciousness’
Is that one of the Marxism that they ignore? What I think is hilarious about Marxists is the I will sacrifice everything for the worker attitude, knowing full well they are “in the party” and we saw how well that worked out in Russia…
It is the basic premise to historical materialism. Truly Marxism has been so warped by individuals just trying to save the name or bits and pieces of it that it resembles almost nothing of its original self. That is what transpires when you have a crackpot theorist who makes confused Sorelian soothsaying myths about the past, present and future.To quote Sir Alexander Gray:
‘But beyond this, there are those who believe in Marx without having read him–perhaps who believe in Marx just because they have not read him. It is probably a safe surmise that to-day the third volume of Capital is even less read than that single chapter which has conferred immortality on the prophet Obadiah, and when read, is read with as little comprehension. Just as, according to some and to judge from their practice, a good Christian need not read his bible, so a good Marxian does not need to read his Marx: he KNOWS it is there. Thus, for the great body of the faithful, Marx has become the inspired author of a body of Sorelian myths, which sum up, and fit in with, their general view of life, which clarify and illumine their daily strivings, which rationalize and crystallise their instincts. And these people, quite rightly, are not concerned with metaphysical refinements of a theory of value. They accept the fact of ‘exploitation’ which has been proven by Marx, whom the doubter can read if he can and if he so chooses–by Marx who had read so many books that the list of his references runs to pages and pages of close type. Moreover ‘increasing misery’ means ‘increasing misery’ neither more nor less; and in a world where we all feel so much less fortunate than we think we ought to be, it is comforting to be told that we are right, and to know is who is responsible for our unhappiness. That is what Marx did, and here lies the secret of his influence. To consider whether Marx was ‘right’ or ‘wrong’; to dredge Volume I and III of Capital for inconsistencies or logical flaws, to ‘refute’ the Marxian system is, in the last resort, sheer waste of time; for when we consort with Marx we are no longer in the world of reason or logic.’
You should hear some of the BS “nonmarxists” come up with…
These are people that want hard core communism, but do not want to be called communists…
“Marx, in the “Communist Manifesto” said we would have a society without government, but I want a government so I am not Marxist…” (My Favorite)
“Marxism does not work, we are going to go beyond that, and that will work becasue we are doing it.”
There are some really certifiable people out there…
Well it is nighty night time…
I think the paladin for socialism is the current president of the United States. Just saying.
Great citation. Marxist doctrine is a really genius thing. Even if one does explode Marxist theory the refutation can be discarded as a product of bourgeois thought and not of the superior proletariate thought. I can never understand how people can buy into the Marxist class model…it’s really crazy. And of course the lynchpin of the Marx doctrine, the LVT, which is obviously false. The fact that Marxist theory is vicious is not relevant to Marxists.
Marxism is a religion that tries to project an aura of science about itself.
We do, it is life itself. The only thing supporting todays massive population of humans IS capitalism. Without it, most of us would not be here, nor would we be enjoying the great leaps in technology and ever rising standards of living that gives these commies time to drool in their psycho-soup.
I agree, it needs reworking, but I think Hoppe’s negative proofs as detailed in Kinsella’s How we come to own ourselves are good. If the person you are arguing with supports responsibility for negative actions, like crime, ask them why they don’t support being allowed to keep the fruits of one’s positive actions to the full extent. It reveals an inconsistency.
IOW, emotive hysteria when faced with logic they cannot escape. So sad.
Go to the link in my signature.