Are you saying that a contract to trade real estate for stolen property is valid?
But there was no government to enforce property rights when the property was “stolen”. It seems that the anarchist system failed to protect property rights and the party with the stronger military prevailed.
So Poptech, all you did was invoke pearl harbour as if that proved something. I know that’s what any good neocon is supposed to do, but it doesn’t help your position any.
The thing is, WWII was by no means a ‘defensive’ war. It was a war in which different factions fought to expand their ‘spheres of influence’.
The only thing the american military were defending was their god given ‘right’ to empire-building.
It helps if you understand what the word neo-con means.
United States property was attacked at Pearl Harbor which was located in a U.S. Territory by Japan and U.S. Flag ships that were the property of U.S citizens were attacked by Germany in the Atlantic. The Japanese and German’s were empire building, the U.S. was defending itself and fighting back against those countries that were actually “empire building”. What sort of propaganda do they teach in Argentinian schools?
What territory did the U.S. acquire after WWII for it’s “empire”?
Poptech, is there anything else you can do apart from parroting neocon propaganda ?
“United States property” - there’s no such thing. You are talking about the loot of a gang of thieves and murderers.
I think that the little murderers of the american miltary are still occupying germany and japan ? Among various other places ?
What territory did the U.S. acquire after WWII for it’s “empire”?
I`d like to state my opinion on Libertarian going to join the US military (I still can´t believe that´s not a joke):
First of all, if you are in such a despair as you say, try to find a decent (non-tax funded) job. If you really can´t and you have to consider the tax-funded job in order to survive/not become homeless, well, that´s understandable. But for god´s sake, military!? Go to some bureau, stay there for few months and keep looking for a private-company job.
But you say you want to be in the military for several years. You say it´s because of the benefits and education.
Sounds to me you are either not in such a despair or not a libertarian.
If you´re truly a libertarian and you don´t have any other option right now than to take a tax-funded job, do it. But do it for as short time as possible and keep looking for a decent job during that time.
I don’t know about you I would be very happy if the government and military was made up of libertarians.
“I am a libertarian […]. Nonetheless, I want to join the Air Force […].”
So you love the idea of freedom for all, but you consider engagement in mass murdering people and destroying their property.
“for the benefits of education and salary”.
Who are you indeed…? :-/
“The peoples who have developed the system of the market economy and cling to it are in every respect superior to all other peoples. The fact that they are eager to preserve peace is not a mark of their weakness and inability to wage war. They love peace because they know that armed conflicts are pernicious and disintegrate the social division of labor. But if war becomes unavoidable, they show their superior efficiency in military affairs too. They repel the barbarian aggressors whatever their numbers may be.” - Ludwig von Mises
Who decides what law these courts, police, and military are to either uphold or not uphold?
oh, i see, the answer you give to this question is might makes right
So you side with the stronger military - not with individual rights. might makes right isn’t libertarian, POPtech.
As far as I know, just about every military base it has around the world was acquired after WWII.
Look, they’re going to take my money, anyways.
Might as well be one of our own who benefits.
If it helps, I pay a lot of taxes, and I approve.
Is it moral? Probably not.
On the other hand, you can use this as a government-sponsored opportunity to spread the word on free market economics and Rothbardian thought.
So, if you’re gonna take it, you should take some homework with you.
Have you read Man, Economy, and State yet?
Right, wishing death upon people screams ‘Libertarianism!’
In the time I have been gone, Juan has really ripped into Poptech with some very good historical points of debate. I hope to see more of this style of debate from him, it is rather becoming.
Well, that is the question behind this thread.
It’s not even sensible. Forget the fact that he will be serving the state as a trained killer. Forget the fact that libertarianism can’t be advanced by libertarians fulfilling the role of statist.
What if he comes back without an arm or a leg? What if he doesn’t come back at all?
This isn’t asking if he should take a union busting job with ACME Inc. This is $22k a year to potentially get killed.
Why not stay stateside and become a drug mule? That has to pay better and be less dangerous. And it’s actually more libertarian.
Mind the Anocter’s words: “for the benefits of education and salary” - that is something completely different then self-defence in the Mises’ words above…
I joined the army at 21 for about the same reasons, and my justifications were almost exactly as yours are. Here are the costs for your benefits.
- Loss of self
- Loss of your moral compass(the ability to distinguish right from wrong)
- Loss of compassion
- Loss of autonomy
- Name your freedoms they are gone, forever. The contract is always broken by the state. They will have your dossier. If they need your skills,but your contract is expired, then tough luck for you. You will be the perfect cog in the machine, and if you break you will be replaced.
- Blood will be on your hands directly. You will be the acting agent in the deaths of people; people looking for a job when the economy is tough. They have skills, but no food. They don’t have food because of you. I say you, because you will be the primary obstacle in their quest for food. You will make a living ensuring they are not able to acquire food and various other things of trade.
- You will be a machine trained for one purpose. To kill. It does not matter your MOS, your branch, or your political leanings. (You will be for the military party, or you will not remain in the military.)
- You will realize what you have become, what you have become is the “enemy” that you’ve been killing for the past x years. It isn’t fun, and not everyone makes it out alive. (suicide)
If you think you are going to join the chair force and not pound the ground you are mistaken. The army needs infantry, and infantry is every enlisted man’s primary MOS. You will be ground protection from Balad to the Green Zone, Out the FOB’s etc… (FOB=Forward Operating Base) If you are a mechanic or ATC you will be tasked with escort detail. Braving the most bombed road in Baghdad. Sounds like fun eh?
Well now you know. You will have to face yourself someday soon. I can understand why some put a bullet in their head. Good luck.