- Trade school and community colleges= The Shit
- We live in a society where oftentimes whether or not you really need the degree, you need the degree, because if you don’t then champion X does and he’s going to look more educated, even if his decision to get the degree despite the fact that he doesn’t need it to do the job and that it doesn’t he’s that much better at the job and is 120K with interest in the hole means that he’s more dumber than you.
- The fact is that most of the jobs created in advanced economies are upper level higher-skilled jobs. You’re going to need some degree of training to do most things, but this doesn’t necessarily mean that going to a 40K a year school for 8 years is the best way to do this.
- High school degree or GED is pretty necessary, whether or not it’s really necessary. High school’s easy, just get it done with the least amount of effort and if you’re really eager go out and try to get some job experience/training/good learning in relevant subjects in while you’re at it.
- DON’T DROP OUT WITHOUT A PLAN. KEEP YOUR OPTIONS OPEN. HAVE A PLAN. I LIEK CAPSLOCK. IT MAKES ME FEEL IMPORTANT.
Think of it like evolution versus revolution. Don’t be in such a rush to fit yourself into a slot. What’s the rush? Odds are, you have a long life ahead of you. Enjoy it, find your place in it, evolve into it. I know the bourgeois Conventional Wisdom says precisely the opposite but Western values aren’t the be-all-end-all. It turns out that there are lots of people around the world without iPhones and iPads who are joy-filled and happy and lead rich, fulfilling lives.
Epicurus said the most important thing is friends. People have been repeating the teachings of Epicurus for nearly 2,500 years. Maybe he was onto something.
Clayton -
When i grow up i want to get away from urban areas. ^^^^ And not own a cellphone.
But i will have a gaming desktop.
Are you serious? Stay in school. What are you incapable of deciding what is and is not useful in terms of information dispensed to you? Yea there are some useless parts of high school but there are useful parts also.
Seriously..I cannot believe that someone would drop out of high school.
http://www.education-reform.net/dropouts2.htm
http://www.education-reform.net/dropouts.htm
a few here that have not done bad in life
That’s a pretty short list compared to all of the dropouts that are pushing mops their whole lives.
Bottom line is that if you drop out your chances aren’t great. Don’t bank on being a successful entrepreneur - it’s hard as hell and most people fail. Successful entrepreneurs understand risk management and dropping out is a big ass risk. If you can’t figure that out you’re probably destined for employment anyway so you’re going to need that diploma even more. It’s like an insurance program.
The people I know that dropped college or high school to do their own thing already had something useful blooming and essentially got an “honorary smart person” pass because of what they had already done, not based on some future dream of success.
Don’t listen to the naysayers. A diploma isn’t worth the paper it’s printed on, at least in the US, I can’t speak to Israel. I was home-schooled, got my GED, got 17 credits at a community college (the minimum required to get into most any real university) and then went to university. This crap about how you’ll be pushing a mop if you don’t get The Diploma is just a lot of outdated, scare-mongering horse-shit.
Clayton -
http://www.hslda.org/docs/nche/000010/200410250.asp some homeschool stats.
do you think public high school prepares people better than collage or open collage classes? i think many high school students would do perfectly well in collage classes. i think anything important that can be learned in high school can be learned outside of highschool, perhaps even at a cheaper price and at a faster pace.
the list of high school billionairs in also short compared to high school graduates or collage billionairs compared to collage graduates. college is not even really for making money a lot of the time.
It’s important to get the paper. If you don’t like high school get the paper in evening school equivalent or take a GED, but get the paper.
Really? Well, I did it. The next year that I spent in evening school was the best of my life. 18 hours of classes instead of more than 30 a week, fridays off, no homework, get to sleep in the morning, get to avoid rush hour traffic, no unannounced tests and oral examinations, no patronizing from teachers who treat you like an adult responsible for himself and paying customer rather than a prisoner.
My only regret would be not doing all 4 years in evening school. It was really inexpensive too when you consider how much of your time is freed up and how much skull-#*cking you’re saved.
So what will you do if you do drop out? Why do you think you will be motivated any more by life out in the wider world than by life in school?
Ok, thanks for all of the help.
This is something I’ve been thinking about quite a lot lately due to my own academic background, and how few doors my degree (soon to be degrees) has really opened for me. The most successful individual’s I know have much less education and really excel in other areas (technical knowledge acquired independently out of sheer curiosity, or a sort of charisma that seems to be far more marketable than any college degree).
I would say that high school is fairly valuable due simply to the fact that it exposes you to basic math (geometry, algebra) and grammar. These skills are, indubitably, highly valuable and required for the vast majority of positions in the economy. At the same time, though, it will expose you to pure nonsense and confusion (especially in history/science classes). They will literally teach you things that have been dismissed by practically every major authority in their respective fields.
College can be very valuable and it can also be a complete waste of time. Obviously, it will be a waste of time if you decide to major in something ridiculous that no one cares about (sociology, art history, poli-sci, psychology, etc) but it can also be a waste of time if you major in something considered relatively useful (math, finance, economics, etc).
I would say college is valuable insofar as it allows individuals to establish certain relationships with other individuals that may end up being quite fruitful in the future (connections, basically). You may be surprised (or not) how useful connections are when attempting to find employment. Additionally, every college student should take internships in order to develop actual, relevant work experience (something much more marketable than high GPA’s).
The left tends to over-state the usefulness of education and the acquisition of scientific knowledge while ignoring or down-playing things that end up being much more correlated with success (ambition, entrepreneurship, etc). I would say to you, though, that you should not drop out of school unless you figure out what it is you want to do with your life or until you find employment that you enjoy. Your parents are paying the taxes anyways, so you might as well go to school if you’re not doing anything else.
At the same time, though, it will expose you to pure nonsense and confusion (especially in history/science classes). They will literally teach you things that have been dismissed by practically every major authority in their respective fields.
I can’t say I experienced this myself in these subjects. What country are you from, out of interest? What was it they taught you in these areas that you disagreed with?
No one here is in any position to give you good advice yet. You havent even said what your goals, dreams, expectations, and wants are yet!
If you say you just want to paint stick figures for the rest of your life and just have a job that can pay rent then the answer is going to be completely different then if you want to be a doctor.
My knee jerk reaction when i hear a 15 year old wanting to drop out of school is to say DONT DO IT! Dude you are too young to know what you want to do in life. You are going through the biggest mental/physical changes in your life right now and it is irresponsible to act on your perceptions of the world. I dont think anyone at 15 has the life experience to make a decision like that. I dont know your country’s educational system or how hard it is to get a GED. But if high school is 4 years and if 15 makes you a freshman then i think you have A LOT of studying to do to get your GED. So instead of wasting 7 hours a day in school you will be wasting 14 hours a day for a year learning enough to pass the test. So if wasting 7 hours is too much then wasting 14 is certainly too much, and you wont do it without a goal that requires the GED. Maybe someone who has actually taken a GED can tell you how difficult it is, and maybe im off base here.
I’d say that the connections are the only “valuable” aspect of college, especially if you attend an Ivy League or other prestigious school. However, that itself is only important if you want to find employment; that, to get a W-2.
In some jobs, I can see the usefulness of a degree in the sciences. For example, a PhD in geology if you want to work in mining. But even then, I suppose that you could get a job working a shovel at mine and then going home and reading about geology, and then working your way into management or some other higher-up job by showing that you have taken the initiative to learn about geology although you’re simply a shoveller, which is an aspect that any employer worth working for values a lot.
So, the degree is useful insofar as employers want you to have a degree; I blame this mostly on the HR department, whose leadership probably have MBAs in human resource manangement, which is a completely useless education, unless you want to work in the HR department.
If you want to be an entrepreneur-promoter, then go ahead. Drop out of high school (and go to night school to finish your GED even if it takes you four more years, if you’d like to). Take some basic courses on accounting and stuff at the local community college–but, then again you could just buy a book on Amazon. Just remember to buy low and sell high, have a good BS detector, have some capital, introduce yourself to everyone everywhere, don’t forget about psychic profit, learn from you mistakes AND those of others, go to mixers, and don’t be shy.
No, he’s not. He’s old enough to make his own mistakes and deal with consequences.
And how is staying in school going to make it any better? He needs to get out and experience what’s across the street from school.
So, you want him to wait until he graduates high school or even college, when his brain will be mush after all of the indoctrination or the hours spent in class wondering why he’s there?
Schools are crap. The most important part of a school is its teachers; however, most teachers suck at teaching. Go to Khan Academy and iTunes U to watch lectures by professors from Stanford, MIT, etc. because they know how to teach a subject.
just so you know i said no one here is in position to give you advice because we dont have enough information, which includes me. Then i said my knee jerk reaction when i hear a 15 yr old kid meaning any 15 year old including him, but of course id be speaking in generalities and obviously everyone is different.
How do you know he is old enough to make his own mistakes? would you say thats true for a 14 yr old? 12? 8? 5? 2? 3 month old? I for sure wasnt ready to make that decision and im grateful that i didnt.
i suggested staying in school because it will give him time to understand himself longer and less to do with school. If he gets out and gets a job im willing to bet he will move out of his parents house the second he realizes that he can sustain himself and the self gratification of living on your own. I still remember exactly how i felt when i closed my door the very first time of my first apartment. Its a great feeling to be able to live on your own labor. Maybe it had something to do with my father being in the top 1% of facist parenting techniques.
I agree school is crap. Doing MIT for free would be a great way to go. He’d be one of the first to do so too, and be considered a pioneer. I’m dont know much about the other places you suggested, but if its anything like MIT’s program then go for it. My main point is without us knowing anything about him we cant make opinions. Then my opinions stated are based off the generic 15 year old that wants to drop out. Most kids that drop out at 15 are making the wrong decision, terrible schooling or not.
so does mises want separation of state and school or not?
i figure even minarchists arent advocating for state school.
i know ron paul said he wants the federal government out of the school business and think’s it would be great if the states followed this examble.
that’s advocating for 15 year olds to get kicked out of school, let alone dropping out on their own.
In a situation like this in nine cases out of ten to actually ‘rise up the ranks’ you’ll not only have to learn geology but be good at office politics. It’s probably simpler to come in with qualifications.