Is the United States really a bankrupt corporation?

I’ve heard this – what I am considering to be a rumor at this point – a few times, on radio shows like Alex Jones’s and Gary Franchi’s, and even read about it on obscure websites, and I have to admit it does seem to have the air of potential plausibilty. I’m wondering if any of the fine, well-read Individualist minds on this network have heard anything or have any information about this. The story, from what I’ve gathered, is something like this:

At some point in the early 20th Century, the U.S. Congress made some sort of secret, signed agreement with international bankers, which effectively transformed the U.S.government into a Washington D.C.-based corporate entity, and a bankrupt one at that.
At that point the U.S. Constitution was also changed, formally from “the Constitution for the united States,” to “the Constitution of the UNITED STATES.” The changing of the words “for” to “of,” and also the changing of the lettering, is said to represent the changing of the document from a legal one to a corporate one. It is said that the function of the U.S. government, and particularly the Courts, is to enforce the terms of the bankruptcy.

Has anyone here heard of this? Is there any truth to it? If so, what are the full implications?

Sounds somewhat conspiratorial. I haven’t heard of such a thing though, no.

Not as odd as this however:

http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=553

Yes, I know a number of people riding that train.

The implication is that having any contractual relationship with the Corporation of The United States of America means that you are no longer a sovereign citizen in the state in which you reside. Contractual relationship stems from having a Social Security number, paying taxes, vehicle licences, drivers licence or voting. You as a person and what you produce is owned and controlled by the corporation. All property is owned and controlled by the corporation. This is (purportedly) the basis for property taxation - both real estate and personal property.

Individuals who subscribe to these theories ‘withdraw’ from the corporation and seem to exist outside of federal or state laws. They submit some forms to cancel their Social Security number, request a refund of Social Security funds paid in and turn in their drivers licences. ‘Driving a vehicle’ is supposedly a commercial act requiring licence (permission) by the corporation whereas ‘travelling in a personal method of coveyance’ is a human right which cannot be denied nor resticted by licencing. They run around with a hand-written sticker in the window of their ‘method of conveyance’ citing the code or public law from which they claim sovereignty and obeying traffic laws is ‘optional’.

There is also supposedly a method to own real estate property which is free and clear of any government claim thus negating the requirement to pay real estate or property tax - something to do with a ‘Freeholder Title’. This grants (in my limited understanding) sole and sovereign ownership when title is cleared back to royal concession and paid for in gold or gold-backed dollars.

It is all such a twisted web… All I can say about the whole thing is that you better have lots of time & money to spend in court and in jail - or else have nothing that they can take away from you and just live off the land and the odd job you can pick up here & there. It sounds like the perfect existence for those who espouse (as I understand it from reading here) - agorism.

…wow, first time I ever had a post requiring review. Must have typed a couple of ‘trigger’ words…

requiring review… does that mean that someone felt this post was inappropriate?

Its just something that I heard that disturbed me. I realize that it seems over-the-top “conspiratorial.” But if someone would have come up to me two years ago and said: “That paper in your wallet is created by an insidious cartel for the purpose of siphoning our wealth to Wall St. and Washington DC.” I would have thought them a paranoid schizophrenic.

And having read enough in the past year to know that the history my public school textbooks taught me had been sanitized for statist indoctrination, and that the sanitizing and indoctrinating is done on purpose to keep people from becoming cognizant of how badly they’re being fleeced and just how much of their liberty has been lost.

So excuse me if I now refuse to shut my mind off and just dismiss out-of-hand any information that might come off as “conspiratorial.” I brought that question up at this forum because I had perceived initially that the people who post here are generally well-read and seem to have a handle on concepts and historical contexts that you don’t find other places – not the type of people to carry a priori assumptions that because something is perceived to be sinister conspiratorial behavior by the state, it must be the product of paranoid delusion. Sorry if it offended anyone.

Steve,

You offended nobody. As it so happens, I am very familiar with the concept you have discovered on the Internet; you have inadvertently stumbled upon what is colloquially called the “sui juris / Common Law” pro se movement. As an attorney, I have done a great deal of rigorous thought and research on the premises of this Common Law “movement,” which is a kind of disorganized, fluctuating group of individuals who vary by type, ideas and circumstance, but who nonetheless have a common belief in some form of secret law that has usurped the “true law” in today’s legal system. I will post more this evening, but the short answer to your question is definitely not, and even if there were some shadowy agreement among some political and banking elites back in the day, it would be as meaningless, non-binding and nonsensical (with respect to public governance) as an agreement among mafia families on how to rule society.

Bankruptcy has no meaning outside of statute, other than to describe the general state of being unable to pay one’s debts (a synonym of insolvent). A State cannot declare bankruptcy in an formal legal sense, unless pursuant to a treaty or other formal legal document. But even then it would be a legal fiction. The US conventionally went “bankrupt” when it abrogated the gold standard in various steps.

More fundamentally, the entire “Common Law” paradigm implicitly rests on erroneus metaphysical assumptions. I will write further this evening, but until then, a good starting point for insight is to understand that all laws are de facto, as are all governments. Thus, the question as to whether courts somehow all secretly enforce a different kind of “law” due to some de jure private bankruptcy is an invalid question. Only the natural law can be considered metaphysically real and de jure (morality, ethics, Austrian a priori observations on reality).

You may be focusing on the less technical factual side, which is that somehow the same core of elites, and their successors, have had this secret agreement to which they are faithful and have somehow caused, directly or indirectly, the court system to use this secret agreement as the law of the United States (thus the UNITED STATES). Perhaps the best way of dismissing this out of hand is this (other than the sheer unreality of such an endeavor): there is NO need for such an agreement!

All government is de facto (the only “de jure” coercive acts are those justified by consent or by non-consenting authority acting prudently under natural law / Austrian principles / traditional customs tied to the former two). The Courts haven’t started applying a new form of metaphysical law in place of the old metaphysical law. There is no old metaphysical law. The Constitution has no metaphysical status, except for those who consented to be under it in 1776, and then only insofar as it would be interpreted via its original meaning for ordinary persons in ordinary communication (Randy Barnett has done great work in showing how any other theory is bunk). During the rise of the legal realism movement in the 20th century, judges merely began to disregard old theories of interpretation, which were admittedly metaphysical in their premises, and simple apply new, often arbitrary theories, where to even call such theories a form of interpretation would even be a stretch. There was no need to “hoodwink” America and secretly set up some netherworld corporation to replace America with. These are all fictions. It’s just a game.

What does it mean, metaphysically, if a judge violates the Constitution in a ruling? Does he need to operate under some secret law that quietly abrogates the constitution in order to violate the Constitution? Of course not—the Constitution isn’t some magical chain that binds a judiciary to operate in such a manner. Instead, judges decided, in the spirit of John Marshall, that the law is what the Courts say it is.

More on this later if you care to hear it…

American democracy turned government into corporations a few centuries ago, and thats as close to a compliment as democracy is going to get from me.

Corporations aren’t evil, government created privileges that empower them are. Strike the root of evil, not one of its many branches.

bonaventure–

I would care to hear more, thanks. I will say I agree 100% with what you say, that jurists of the 20th Century clearly assumed an authority to “interpret” the Constitution, in a way that defies basic principles of the Rule of Law – and it didn’t require any sevret agreement for them to do so.

The theory I asked about in this post was discussed at length on a radio show I was listening to on WTPRN, and the guy discussing it seemed very convinced of his conclusions. I can’t remember all the little bits of “evidence” he had, but I will say that I came away thoroughly unconvinced

The only thing that bothers me, and thus left that small thread of nagging suspicion hanging in my mind, is the fact that our federal government has been party to the systematic fleecing of the American people since the passage of both the Federal Reserve and the 16th Amendment “Income Tax” Acts pf 1913, both of which combined basically boil down to a partnership between the State and a banking cartel, to systematically rob the people. We are compelled by law to trade in a vicious paper currency that siphons our purchasing power away to Wall St., it is blatantly unconstitutional, and the courts have upheld the process. This is what makes me suspicious that the courts are party to the same agenda.

I came across this assertion as well, but it claimed thatthe U.S. became a coporation in the late 19th century, after the civil war, when we probably were bankrupt. What happened in the early 20th was the creation of the Federal Reserve, which, as I’m sure you know, gave a bank the power formerly held by Congress to print money.

My only concern is that if the dollar collapses, the banks and corporations are going to start buying up everything once run by the government, i.e. roads, water supply, the postal service, the state of New York, Kansas, Texas, etc. Then we will have become a corporation, if we’re not one already.

I wish that would happen/

I do not believe that the US Government is a bankrupt corporation. The owners would have liquidated a long time ago. The Federal Governments has an unfunded liability for old folks alone above 80trillion. That is 4 years of GDP!!! Add in the military and ever expanding law enforcement and the unfunded liability jumps to over 100 trillion. GM doen’t even have that kind of debt load.

You want to see something amazing? Go to: State of Delaware Now, search the following files for the following Delaware Corporations: File No. 0325720 File No. 0042817 File No. 2004409 File No. 2193946 File No. 2213135 _________________________ “The criterion of truth is that it works even if nobody is prepared to acknowledge it.” Ludwig von Mises “Corruptissima republicae, plurimas leges” Tacitus

Strange, I get the same thing from the TN Secretary of State’s Web site. There’s one for the United States of America (ID# 0440426). It also gave an address to a place in a small town to the northeast of Chatanooga that doesn’t seem to exist, according to MapQuest’s aerial photo option. Filed for charter January 23, 2003…

Several cities also have listings, possibly even all (and the state itself appears to have three,) but the Secretary of State’s Web site is poorly designed and won’t list more than 50 search results at a time.

Even if all this has to do with some obscure and/or meaningless federal law, one has to admit that it is a little creepy.

By the way, that statement for the Federal Reserve Corporation on the DE state government’s Web site is priceless. “THIS IS NOT A STATEMENT OF GOOD STANDING.”

It does call into question some of the concepts we have of our government and the agencies it employs. Crooks tend to hide their deeds behind corporate entities, I dare say that their are agendas within this government that desires to either protect such deeds or shield themselves from certain liabilities associated with such deeds.

File Number:

2193946

Incorporation Date / Formation Date:

04/19/1989
(mm/dd/yyyy)

Entity Name:

UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, INC.

Entity Kind:

CORPORATION

Entity Type:

NON-PROFIT OR RELIGIOUS

Residency:

DOMESTIC

State:

DE

Status:

VOID

Status Date:

03/01/1994

TAX INFORMATION

Last Annual Report Filed:

1991

Annual Tax Assessment:

$ 0.00

Tax Due:

$ 110.50

Tax Status:

DELINQUENT

Total Authorized Shares:

0

REGISTERED AGENT INFORMATION

Name:

THE COMPANY CORPORATION

Address:

2711 CENTERVILLE ROAD SUITE 400

City:

WILMINGTON

County:

NEW CASTLE

State:

DE

Postal Code:

19808

Phone:

(302)636-5440

FILING HISTORY (Last 5 Filings)

Seq

Document Code

Description

No. of pages

Filing Date
(mm/dd/yyyy)

Filing Time

Effective Date
(mm/dd/yyyy)

1

0134

Change of Agent Address

0

01/24/1992

16:30

01/24/1992


2

0102

Incorp Delaware Non-Stock

2

04/19/1989

09:00

04/19/1989


File Number:

2213135

Incorporation Date / Formation Date:

11/13/1989
(mm/dd/yyyy)

Entity Name:

THE SOCIAL SECURITY CORP., DEPT. OF HEALTH, EDUCATION & WELFARE, INC.

Entity Kind:

CORPORATION

Entity Type:

GENERAL

Residency:

DOMESTIC

State:

DE

Status:

VOID

Status Date:

03/01/1991

TAX INFORMATION

Last Annual Report Filed:

NO REPORTS ON FILE

Annual Tax Assessment:

$ 0.00

Tax Due:

$ 6,295.67

Tax Status:

DELINQUENT

Total Authorized Shares:

1,500,000

REGISTERED AGENT INFORMATION

Name:

HARVARD BUSINESS SERVICES, INC.

Address:

16192 COASTAL HIGHWAY

City:

LEWES

County:

SUSSEX

State:

DE

Postal Code:

19958

Phone:

(302)645-7400

FILING HISTORY (Last 5 Filings)

Seq

Document Code

Description

No. of pages

Filing Date
(mm/dd/yyyy)

Filing Time

Effective Date
(mm/dd/yyyy)

1

0134

Change of Agent Address

0

07/23/1990

08:30

07/23/1990


2

0102S

Incorp Delaware Stock Co.

1

11/13/1989

09:00

11/13/1989


File Number:

0042817

Incorporation Date / Formation Date:

09/03/1914
(mm/dd/yyyy)

Entity Name:

FEDERAL RESERVE ASSOCIATION

Entity Kind:

CORPORATION

Entity Type:

NON-PROFIT OR RELIGIOUS

Residency:

DOMESTIC

State:

DE

Status:

VOID

Status Date:

03/01/2001

TAX INFORMATION

Last Annual Report Filed:

1998

Annual Tax Assessment:

$ 0.00

Tax Due:

$ 109.00

Tax Status:

DELINQUENT

Total Authorized Shares:

0

REGISTERED AGENT INFORMATION

Name:

DELAWARE BUSINESS INCORPORATORS, INC.

Address:

3422 OLD CAPITOL TRAIL SUITE 700

City:

WILMINGTON

County:

NEW CASTLE

State:

DE

Postal Code:

19808

Phone:

(302)996-5819

FILING HISTORY (Last 5 Filings)

Seq

Document Code

Description

No. of pages

Filing Date
(mm/dd/yyyy)

Filing Time

Effective Date
(mm/dd/yyyy)

1

0312V

Renewal for Void

1

11/22/1995

09:00

11/22/1995


2

0102

Incorp Delaware Non-Stock

7

09/03/1914

15:00

09/03/1914


File Number:

0325720

Incorporation Date / Formation Date:

07/12/1933
(mm/dd/yyyy)

Entity Name:

INTERNAL REVENUE TAX AND AUDIT SERVICE, INC.

Entity Kind:

CORPORATION

Entity Type:

GENERAL

Residency:

DOMESTIC

State:

DE

Status:

VOID

Status Date:

04/01/1936

TAX INFORMATION

Last Annual Report Filed:

NO REPORTS ON FILE

Annual Tax Assessment:

$ 0.00

Tax Due:

$ 0.00

Tax Status:

CURRENT

Total Authorized Shares:

0

REGISTERED AGENT INFORMATION

Name:

INACTIVE AGENT ACCOUNT

Address:

SECRETARY OF STATE TOWNSEND BLDG

City:

DOVER

County:

KENT

State:

DE

Postal Code:

199011234

Phone:

(302)739-3138

FILING HISTORY (Last 5 Filings)

Seq

Document Code

Description

No. of pages

Filing Date
(mm/dd/yyyy)

Filing Time

Effective Date
(mm/dd/yyyy)

1

0102S

Incorp Delaware Stock Co.

3

07/12/1933

10:00

07/12/1933


It seems to me like these are simply placeholders, so that nobody can create a corporation called the IRS, and then, for example, steal cheques sent to the IRS and cash them in, or alternatively make fake checks and have people come running to the IRS for their money. This seems like what happened in 1989 when a bunch of guys created USA, inc, followed by Social Securty, inc, to try to do these scams, but were obviously caught. The Fed and IRS ones were obviously created to prevent this from happening. Far more reasonable explanation, especially as this information is publicly available.

That is a very plausible explanation however, the one corporation that does fit into what could be considered a proper time-frame is that of the Federal Reserve Association, which was incorporated in 1914. If the reasons behind such corporations was merely to serve as placeholders intent on preventing fraud of some type, then such a long-term ruse would be relatively unnecessary, particularly considering the variety of government corporations that is evidenced on the State of Delaware site. I dare say that the number of incredibly difficult hoops needed to put off a scam associated with cashing checks sent to the IRS, or any other government agency, would be almost impossible, even in 1989. In order to do that with any government or associated agency of the government would involve a complex level of overrides within the bank cashing such checks that it would not only be foolish to attempt such a fraud, but it would be an extremely dangerous fraud. Any banker worth his salt, even in 1989, would have instantly blown the fraud since all IRS checks are deposited in very specific accounts, the same is also true with any other government agency. Now, if the fraud had been reversed where checks were written to an individual from a bogus IRS account or SSI account, then perhaps there was a chance, but in that case there would have been no need to go to such trouble as setting up a legal corporate entitiy as the United States of America, Inc., or the Internal Revenue, Inc.