Attacking me personally because you can’t refute my argument on its merit?
I asked you, what mass? Are you going to reply, or keep posting non-sequiturs and strawmen?
I feel it is an appeal to authority which is a sign of lazy or desperate argumentation.
Merely asking a question, hence the question mark at the end of the sentence. You state you are not into ‘groups’. Do you deny that the Mises Community is a ‘group’?A libertarian group to be more precise?
The individuals who engage in the FSR project.
If you disagree with Block’s approach to the libertarian movement then by all means craft an argument against it. I happen to agree with most of what he is saying, I find reason in it, consistency, logical deduction. Libertarianism is not the prevailing ideology, and even if we were why kick out those who agree with us on many issues? Granted there are a few rules that cannot be bent or broken, namely the NAP and private property rights. Minarchists don’t go as far as anarchists, ok fine they have an inconsistency, however its silly to think that if they don’t want to abolish 100% of the State then they are 100% trash. It would be rather advantageous to ally with minarchists to at least to decrease the state to 95% and then try to sway them with getting rid of the other 5%. But hey, you know it shouldn’t matter to you because you aren’t a ‘movement libertarian’ so things like this shouldn’t really concern you.
Sorry to jump in here, but government is not a myth, the state is. Government does provide some services, that the private sector would be more than happy to provide, if the government did not have such a stranglehold on the services.
To add my $.2 to the topic of the FSP, I am kind of leaning towards the idea that it’s purpose may be too general. But what would you say to getting 500 people to move to a small city, buy homes, and then stop paying taxes? There may be enough already signed up with the FSP that would be willing to do this. But you may only be into educating people. If so, then that is fine. But I myself do not believe people will change, without some action as well. And people seeing a city work, without a city government, would definitely be a step in the right direction, imo.
There is also the native New Hampshire liberty movement, and also the Vermont liberty & secession movement, both of which continue to grow in strength. The native liberty lovers are far less likely to make headlines and far more likely to go about their lives free from interference from the State.
No, you did this before when we debated ethics. You decide to make the conversation personal. Argue from logic, not emotion.
All 800 of them? Or the thousands who say they will move some day?
Exactly, so why post it, except as an appeal to authority?
Laughing Man, I can see Liberty Student’s argument against state secession: since the central(it’s about time we stop pretending there’s a federation) government is unlikely to let any state just leave, there will likely be a fight; this fight will breed patriotism to the new state(especially if it’s successful), which will breed resistance to further levels of secession, leading to another fight. All we really accomplish is a smaller state(which, as Europe shows, doesn’t mean squat).
The FSP in its purest form is a mere network of people who connected with each other on the web and who have decided to live near each other in a less hostile environment and pursue and increase liberty individually in whatever way they wish to. The objections I see come from conflating one or a few members of the FSP as a representation of the whole FSP community.
I encourage you to come to next years Liberty Forum, PorcFest, or even plan your own trip to come up here to get a taste of the FSP community in New Hampshire for yourself.
You should be sorry for jumping in over a point of semantics!!! [;)]
Target practice for Xe.
Know your history. The ink on the Constitution was barely dry when Washington, on behalf of Hamilton, took military troops into the states to put down the Whiskey (Tax) Rebellion. Lincoln, started a war that killed more than half a million people over taxes and authority of the federal government.
You think being in a crowd of 500 will protect you? 5000?
If you cannot make the moral case, which is tied to the economic case, then you have no hope of significant change. People who believe the use of force is justified, will not become libertarians. And if the people who oppose you believe that, and have the weapons to carry it out, you will be demolished.
Ruby Ridge and Waco.
Well then all you are saying is that governments, corporations, businesses, etc., etc., are just “myths”. None of them exist physically. They are all just ideas. But that does not help us really to say they do not exist.
I am not talking about a rebellion. I am talking about not complying. If enough of us just stopped paying taxes (at the local and state levels), and refused to leave our homes, but did not threaten to shoot them, what would they do?
It is not about their beliefs. It is about greed. If people see that some are not paying, why would they keep paying? And if other people see that not paying does not result in the end of the world, then why would they keep paying? I could be wrong, but I do not think that I am.
They resisted. That was their problem. The government cannot move our arms and legs. But they will fire at us if we will fire back.
This will also be your problem.
They can if you’re a corpse.
If you don’t fire back welcome to the cage. Cage me or Kill me. Can’t fight either way.
What do you think rebellion is? More semantics.
What did they do to the South during the Civil War?
I agree, if enough people did it, you might have a shot. Let me know when you have 50 million people on your side.
The Soviets had a gulag system for people who would not comply. You would be sent away to the middle of nowhere, where you either worked or died.
I will not be resisting, so no it will not be.
The government cannot force me to work, even if I am a corpse.
And if 1,000 in a city of 10,000 refuse to pay taxes, how are they going to afford to cage all of them?
I think rebellion is armed resistance. BTW, I don’t know what your problem is with arguing semantics. In philosophy, semantics is one of the most important things to argue. Otherwise, we are unable to understand each other and communicate.
Nothing until the South attacked a fort.
You think we would need 50 million in a town of 20,000 to bring down the city government? Or 50 million in a state of 2 million to bring down the state government?
I do not live in the Soviet Union. There is no “gulag system” here.
Perfectly said.
The government would use this as an opportunity to
A) Teach tax protesters a lesson
B) Create justification for further growth IE. More jails, more laws, stricter penalties ect… The government uses these crisis to make itself bigger every time.
Also I can’t beleive your asking how they are going to pay for it? Since when has being able to pay for things ever been a concern with the government?
Your going to need more then 1000. If the government can make up frivilous wars like war on terror and drugs you better beleive that when the trouble comes to the home front they will mobilize to protect themselves. They could easily jail/penalize 1000 of us. They would be happy to make a war on tax protestors. Shit they would probably call it a boon to the economy for opening new governmental jobs. I can hear the conservative talk radio shows espousing this nonesense from their mic every day. Pay your taxes to defend freedom! A whole new level of doublespeech would likely form.
How do you explain this?
If the government feels that its ability to tax is threatened you better beleive they would do far worse to protect themselves.
You need to read some DiLorenzo.
If you don’t stop the federal government, you are wasting your time.
Yet.
I’m done Spidey. You’re off on another one of your tangents, and I don’t see any value in it.
I am talking about a 1,000 people in a city of 10,000 not paying city taxes. I am not talking about national taxes. So no, we would not need more than a 1,000.
Given the above, how would a city government pay to imprison 10% of its population? The U.S. is having a hard time imprisoning ONE percent. Maybe you should look at the statistics a little bit.
That would be your opinion, and I find it sad that you think so.
Huh? OK, whatever.
I get your point. I am intentionally looking past the statistics. I guess in such a scenario it would be interesting to see how it all played out. At least in a closed community there is more control over the local governance in general.
Still I think the city would just take out a loan like it does with everything else. Thats how they do it up here in Seattle. 
I respect your spirit at least.