Top Ten Photos 9/11 Conspiracy Nuts Hate

How do you know they didn’t go out and investigate? There are a lot of reports done with people about 9/11. You seem to think it hasn’t been done. There are no speculations like you seem to think. People base off what reports and investigations have been done with people about 9/11. Do you still want people to go out nearly a decade later and ask them what they saw that day when it’s already been documented?

If you did a research paper about WWII, would you go out and find some surviving soldiers and ask them their account of the war, or read all the information there is?

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@Bert,

(1) is that news photo of the reporter lady with WTC7 in the background for real?

(2) is that WTC7 .gif for real?

I’ve never followed this 9/11 conspiracy stuff at all—never thought there could ever be anything to it…until I learned more and more history & econ, that is. Still, even then, I haven’t cared much one way or another re: 9/11 conspiracy true or false.

But, WTC7…wow.

Not that I NOW care much one way or another re: 9/11 conspiracey true or false.

But still…damn…those images are hard to argue with."

There’s actually a video of that still photo Bert posted…

very shortly after they screwed up and showed that…the feed was cut…you can see this on the video…its easy to findon youtube.

"The firefighters knew that the building was going to collapse and so that got sent out on a news wire, but they made a typo, switching “will collapse” to “has collapsed”. But I guess somehow we all think that the state controlled media is an institution of perfection. "

Why did they then cut the feed so quickly?

Why didn’t they talk about the mistake? Or even address it?

“but those nuts who claim that there were NO PLANES at all and towers where demolished by misiles…Sorry, but that is really retarded.”

that should be simple…if you’re part of a group that just pulled off 9/11 and got away with it…one of the first things i would do is get some fake 9/11 truth groups out there saying the dumbest things to discredit any real criticism for a real investigation.

I’m not a truther but I suspect foul play at one level or another in 9/11. The official explanation is pretty bad, it’s hard to seriously square it with real human motivations and is incomplete or insubstantial in exactly the areas where the hardest questions lie.

Apparently, everybody’s already forgotten about it, but back in the early 90’s George HW Bush (the creepy, CIA/Skull&Bones/Bohemian Grove guy) started talking about “New World Order” as if everybody ought to know what that is, but no one has ever bothered to explain what he or any of the other CFR types who now regularly use the term mean by it. Maybe I’m just crazy but I see potential patterns not just in 9/11 but in many of the “terrorist” attacks which have occurred since the early 90’s down to today. Is it possible that this is what he meant by New World Order, that is, an Orwellian nightmare?

Take bin Laden, for example. It’s obvious to anyone who bothers to just scratch below the surface of official news reports that bin Laden has been dead for a long time: since December 2001. You can easily see that the man in videos released after December 2001 when bin Laden suddenly changed his tune and started taking “responsibility” for 9/11 is not bin Laden. European researchers have voice-fingerprinted tapes that have been released discussing current events after December 2001, supposedly by bin Laden, and they are not a voice-fingerprint match to pre-2001 audio that is verifiably of bin Laden. Every so often, bin Laden’s image is flashed up on Fox News or CNN along with discussion of 9/11 and where he might be hiding in Northern Pakistan along with head-shaking by the anchors and long faces by the guests and reverent mentions of the lives lost on 9/11. Is this not exactly what the Party did with Emmanuel Goldstein and its Two-Minute Hates in 1984?!

Anyway, I just think Americans are way too naive, especially those who ought to be looking out for funny business in government and elsewhere, namely, our academics and news organizations. If you spend a small amount of time crawling extra-United States news sources (Russia Today, al-Jazeera, BBC, AFP, etc.) you will quickly learn about things that everybody else in the whole world takes for granted (i.e. that the US is creating more terrorists than it is catching/killing by virtue of its occupations of Afghanistan and Iraq), except in America. Wealthy, educated Americans have very little awareness of this rather obvious fact that even the factory workers in hole-in-the-wall districts in India and China know. Being intelligent, wealthy and educated is not an automatic recipe for having an unvarnished view of the facts in the world. You can still be trapped by your loyalty to your national government or religion and the con-men who really run this country will use your loyalty to manipulate you despite all your wealth, education and smarts in order to profit from your arrogant naivete.

Clayton -

They back the government there. They like having other governments under their thumb. And they’ve also sold some of the hardware to them, so It’s not necessarily a cost of $80 billion.

A massive Building was falling to the ground! You don’t think that it’s possible that is what caused the feed to cut?

Watch this video of WTC7 before it’s fallen. Listen very carefully at 1:33. Tell me what you hear.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Afb7eUHr64U&feature=player_embedded

Thanks for the vid, Armstrong, I never saw it from that perspective, awesome.

Now it would be interesting what thruthers would say:

“Oh, you don’t think I would believe that, mister?! This is still insufficient evidence for WTC7 to collapse due to fires, I need some footage from indoors…” and so on…ad nauseam.

found more stuff debunking WTC7 controlled demolition http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gIv4KwMoic&feature=related

I guess I would want to see facts & figures more than photographs. I’ve seen a photo of a steel building in China (not as tall as WTC7 but still pretty damn big) fully engulfed in fire over many, many floors and it stood just fine. I’m not saying that’s the rule instead of the exception but surely there must be data on this kind of thing, i.e. how steel buildings respond to widespread office fires over many floors. The problem is not just that WTC7 collapsed but how it collapsed. The thermal expansion hypothesis must surely have required a great deal of fine-tuning to get a collapse that looks something roughly like what happened to WTC7. NIST could dispel this doubt by simply releasing the computer model it used. The fires were spread over the building in a non-uniform way… so why did the building suddenly collapse in a uniform manner? The NIST model requires the joints at the columns to fail in rapid-fire succession in order from one end of the building to the other. There is another way that the joints could have failed in that order and timing, namely, if they had been cut by explosives, and as difficult as it is to believe someone could have successfully pulled that off, it’s still less hard to believe (for me, at least) than that random office fires spread throughout the building caused the same sequence of failures.

Clayton -

Thanks for that.

“They like having other governments under their thumb.”

If they can give away $80 billion to do that, they can easily sacrifice 3,000 of their own people (who would have produced much less that $80 billion during the rest of their lives in goods and services). Giving away $80 billion is like reducing the population by 40,000 to 50,000.

I know that Saudi Arabia’s government already has agreements and is on friendly terms.

The U.S. Government apparently doesn’t deem it worthwhile to go after a country which it is an ally with because a few of its citizens decided to attack.

Seriously though, if they had this plan, why wouldn’t the official story be that they were Afghani or Iraqi citizens, and they’d have an even better pretense?

With the exception of photo no. 9, all of the others in your post are most likely stills made from computer generated fake videos of the claimed events [photos 2,3,4,5,6,8, 10], or simply still photos of planted evidence [e.g photos 1&7].

The gif of WTC7’s collapse [in another post] is also most likely just a computer generated fake, in my opinion.

Those are my conclusions, based on 7 years of continual analysis and much head scratching and back and forth. Of course I do not expect anyone else here to share my own conclusions.

Here, in part, is why.

Your “Favorite Mistake”

It seems to me that the number 1 “favorite mistake” of 99.99% of both “truthers’” and official conspiracy theory [OTC] believers, is the heavy use of photos and network video in support of their cases.

This is because both groups unquestioningly assume the authenticity of the photos and network videos they endlessly study.

On that assumption they then proceed with their “logic” to make/proove their cases.

Of course, anyone is perfectly free to assume whatever they want to when they start to look at the events of 9/11[ or of anything else], however they are fooling themselves if they believe that doing so has anything at all to do with a scientifically sound " search for truth".

However, it is perfectly understandable that us “laymen” would make such an obvious procedural error, simply because 99.99% of the mainstream “scientific community” are making the exact same error in procedure! [deliberately or otherwise].

Nearly all of them start with the unquestioned assumption that the photos/videos accurately depict real-time events, whether we are talking about a Professor Steven Jones, or the N.I.S.T., or some other “scientific” study group.

I propose that it is methodologically incorrect for any trained scientists to make such assumptions and then base their theories/proofs on these unproven assumptions.

Scientists “should” remain entirely neutral with regard to the truth or falsity of the various videos and photos, suspending judgement about their authenticity until they have all been rigorously examined , first of all, and most importantly, in the light of known laws of physics , and secondly perhaps, in light of all 911 theories, no matter how outlandish those theories at first might seem, either to scientists , or to none scientists.

Just as no photographic/video evidence should at the outset of a scientific investigation be assumed to be real, or fake, no 911 theory should be dismissed as fake or assumed to be “real” until it has been subjected to repeated, rigorous, neutral comparative analysis [both with other photos/videos and perhaps even other types of evidence], in light of known laws of physics.

“Eye Witness Testimony”?

For scientific and legal procedural reasons, I would also “lump” into that general wrong assumption the {unjustified} assumption as to the truth of supposed “eye-witness testimony” , any and every time such testimony has been used to support or contradict any particular 9/11theory, either by “scientists” or by laymen.

Such assumptions have absolutely nothing to do with a sound [and therefor useful], scientific method for attempting to uncover truth, as far as I can see.

[By comparison, and strictly for the Austrians here, it is no less of a procedural/methodological error than is the Classical and Marxists economists {false} underlying assumption of the truth of their “economic man” model - and most Austrians here are probably well aware of the real world consequences, to this day, of the “logic” built on top of that particular false assumption, despite the fact that it has been thoroughly discredited by Menger and Mises etc. ]

In the case of 9/11, [and as with economic science or anything else], in a quest for truth, if you start from even one false assumption , you end up proving nothing - all you accomplish is mostly no more than a further reinforcement of your own particular pre-existing beliefs .

When investigating 9/11, it should not be automatically assumed that the photos and videos and “eye-witness testimony” are genuine, and furthermore,I believe that it is methodologically incorrect for any claimed "scientist to so do.

But what do I know?

Regards,onebornfree.

With the exception of photo no. 9, all of the others in your post are most likely stills made from computer generated fake videos of the claimed events [photos 2,3,4,5,6,8, 10], or simply still photos of planted evidence [e.g photos 1&7].

The gif of WTC7’s collapse [in another post] is also most likely just a computer generated fake, in my opinion.

Those are my conclusions, based on 7 years of continual analysis and much head scratching and back and forth. Of course I do not expect anyone else here to share my own conclusions.

Here, in part, is why.

Your “Favorite Mistake”

It seems to me that the number 1 “favorite mistake” of 99.99% of both “truthers’” and official conspiracy theory [OTC] believers, is the heavy use of photos and network video in support of their cases.

This is because both groups unquestioningly assume the authenticity of the photos and network videos they endlessly study.

On that assumption they then proceed with their “logic” to make/proove their cases.

Of course, anyone is perfectly free to assume whatever they want to when they start to look at the events of 9/11[ or of anything else], however they are fooling themselves if they believe that doing so has anything at all to do with a scientifically sound " search for truth".

However, it is perfectly understandable that us “laymen” would make such an obvious procedural error, simply because 99.99% of the mainstream “scientific community” are making the exact same error in procedure! [deliberately or otherwise].

Nearly all of them start with the unquestioned assumption that the photos/videos accurately depict real-time events, whether we are talking about a Professor Steven Jones, or the N.I.S.T., or some other “scientific” study group.

I propose that it is methodologically incorrect for any trained scientists to make such assumptions and then base their theories/proofs on these unproven assumptions.

Scientists “should” remain entirely neutral with regard to the truth or falsity of the various videos and photos, suspending judgement about their authenticity until they have all been rigorously examined , first of all, and most importantly, in the light of known laws of physics , and secondly perhaps, in light of all 911 theories, no matter how outlandish those theories at first might seem, either to scientists , or to none scientists.

Just as no photographic/video evidence should at the outset of a scientific investigation be assumed to be real, or fake, no 911 theory should be dismissed as fake or assumed to be “real” until it has been subjected to repeated, rigorous, neutral comparative analysis [both with other photos/videos and perhaps even other types of evidence], in light of known laws of physics.

“Eye Witness Testimony”?

For scientific and legal procedural reasons, I would also “lump” into that general wrong assumption the {unjustified} assumption as to the truth of supposed “eye-witness testimony” , any and every time such testimony has been used to support or contradict any particular 9/11theory, either by “scientists” or by laymen.

Such assumptions have absolutely nothing to do with a sound [and therefor useful], scientific method for attempting to uncover truth, as far as I can see.

[By comparison, and strictly for the Austrians here, it is no less of a procedural/methodological error than is the Classical and Marxists economists {false} underlying assumption of the truth of their “economic man” model - and most Austrians here are probably well aware of the real world consequences, to this day, of the “logic” built on top of that particular false assumption, despite the fact that it has been thoroughly discredited by Menger and Mises etc. ]

In the case of 9/11, [and as with economic science or anything else], in a quest for truth, if you start from even one false assumption , you end up proving nothing - all you accomplish is mostly no more than a further reinforcement of your own particular pre-existing beliefs .

When investigating 9/11, it should not be automatically assumed that the photos and videos and “eye-witness testimony” are genuine, and furthermore,I believe that it is methodologically incorrect for any claimed "scientist to so do.

But what do I know?

Regards,onebornfree.

With the exception of photo no. 9, all of the others in your post are most likely stills made from computer generated fake videos of the claimed events [photos 2,3,4,5,6,8, 10], or simply still photos of planted evidence [e.g photos 1&7].

The gif of WTC7’s collapse [in another post] is also most likely just a computer generated fake, in my opinion.

Those are my conclusions, based on 7 years of continual analysis and much head scratching and back and forth. Of course I do not expect anyone else here to share my own conclusions.

Here, in part, is why.

Your “Favorite Mistake”

It seems to me that the number 1 “favorite mistake” of 99.99% of both “truthers’” and official conspiracy theory [OTC] believers, is the heavy use of photos and network video in support of their cases.

This is because both groups unquestioningly assume the authenticity of the photos and network videos they endlessly study.

On that assumption they then proceed with their “logic” to make/proove their cases.

Of course, anyone is perfectly free to assume whatever they want to when they start to look at the events of 9/11[ or of anything else], however they are fooling themselves if they believe that doing so has anything at all to do with a scientifically sound " search for truth".

However, it is perfectly understandable that us “laymen” would make such an obvious procedural error, simply because 99.99% of the mainstream “scientific community” are making the exact same error in procedure! [deliberately or otherwise].

Nearly all of them start with the unquestioned assumption that the photos/videos accurately depict real-time events, whether we are talking about a Professor Steven Jones, or the N.I.S.T., or some other “scientific” study group.

I propose that it is methodologically incorrect for any trained scientists to make such assumptions and then base their theories/proofs on these unproven assumptions.

Scientists “should” remain entirely neutral with regard to the truth or falsity of the various videos and photos, suspending judgement about their authenticity until they have all been rigorously examined , first of all, and most importantly, in the light of known laws of physics , and secondly perhaps, in light of all 911 theories, no matter how outlandish those theories at first might seem, either to scientists , or to none scientists.

Just as no photographic/video evidence should at the outset of a scientific investigation be assumed to be real, or fake, no 911 theory should be dismissed as fake or assumed to be “real” until it has been subjected to repeated, rigorous, neutral comparative analysis [both with other photos/videos and perhaps even other types of evidence], in light of known laws of physics.

“Eye Witness Testimony”?

For scientific and legal procedural reasons, I would also “lump” into that general wrong assumption the {unjustified} assumption as to the truth of supposed “eye-witness testimony” , any and every time such testimony has been used to support or contradict any particular 9/11theory, either by “scientists” or by laymen.

Such assumptions have absolutely nothing to do with a sound [and therefor useful], scientific method for attempting to uncover truth, as far as I can see.

[By comparison, and strictly for the Austrians here, it is no less of a procedural/methodological error than is the Classical and Marxists economists {false} underlying assumption of the truth of their “economic man” model - and most Austrians here are probably well aware of the real world consequences, to this day, of the “logic” built on top of that particular false assumption, despite the fact that it has been thoroughly discredited by Menger and Mises etc. ]

In the case of 9/11, [and as with economic science or anything else], in a quest for truth, if you start from even one false assumption , you end up proving nothing - all you accomplish is mostly no more than a further reinforcement of your own particular pre-existing beliefs .

When investigating 9/11, it should not be automatically assumed that the photos and videos and “eye-witness testimony” are genuine, and furthermore,I believe that it is methodologically incorrect for any claimed "scientist to so do.

But what do I know?

Regards,onebornfree.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/True-believer_syndrome

http://www.skepdic.com/truebeliever.html

some people here really are true believers. If you debunk one of their argument they instantly jump to other argument and you need to debunk this. When you debunk that, they jump to the other and forget about previous debunkings so it is fruitless kinda debate if you don’t make a progress. For me it was enough to learn basic critical thinking skills to quit this notion of “inside jerb”.

To some people it is impossible even accept the fact when you show them video or .gif footage, because they will claim it is fake. That helps them keep believing in their fantasy, because to accept, that you were wrong takes some balls…

@onebornfree,

well said.

You don’t have to start from scratch for every scientific inquiry in order to be scientific. I do not have to prove or even question whether or not live video has been staged until good enough proof arises to that effect. Likewise, I do not have to go through and prove genetic theory in order to do a phylogenetic study on primates.

The difference, however, is that a suggestion of foul-play implies an attempt to cover up, which could entail alteration of all sorts of evidence. I think the “courtroom standards” approach of some 9/11 skeptics is pointless, however, as it’s never going to go to a trial. So, all we’re left with is the equivalent of diligent investigative journalism or critical history. That’s why I don’t like to even talk about WTC1 and WTC2… there are theories that there were no planes at all and they were just photoshopped onto footage of bombs exploding in the towers, there are theories that the planes were switched, theories that they were digitally hijacked from the ground, and so on. But none of this is relevant since it all turns on the thesis that the WTC towers could not have collapsed due to being struck by airliners. No matter the strength and melting points of steel, there is no way we can know there wasn’t a fatal oversight in the design of the WTC towers, such as the sagging floors, that could have triggered a catastrophic collapse under such extreme and unprecedented circumstances. That’s the real problem, there’s no precedent, there’s no historical data to look at and ask “how do steel buildings typically hold up on impact from a jet-fuel laden airliner?”

But WTC7 is a different situation altogether. It wasn’t hit by an airplane. And although the debris from teh collapse of WTC1 certainly engulfed WTC7 at its base, the NIST report explicitly rules out damage to the foundation of WTC7 due to the WTC1 collapse and describes the damage to the external fascia of WTC7 from the collapse of WTC1 as mostly superficial and as having had no effect on the core columns or structural integrity of WTC7. It describes the fires in WTC7 as widespread office fires but there were no accelerants, such as jet fuel, that would have made the fires unusually hot. NIST says there were no explosions of fuel tanks within WTC7.

Now, all of this is not to say that NIST’s hypothesis is impossible. I just think that it’s less probable than the competing hypothesis that the building was brought down by planted explosives, however improbable that may be. Keep in mind that the official theory is also improbable and unprecedented… all the events of 9/11 were unprecedented. As Sherlock Holmes himself said, “When you eliminate the truly impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.” In other words, the least improbable hypothesis wins.

Clayton -

A false analogy, “apples and oranges” .

There can be no good reason for anyone familiar with the scientific method to seriously suggest comparing a piece [or pieces] of network video footage or photos, to an entire body of established scientific research and theory obtained through years of controlled laboratory experiment [other than, perhaps, obfuscation, or self delusion, or possibly to dismiss/discredit any such scientific research/theory].

However apparently , doing so does provide a convenient way of entirely ignoring the vitally important procedural step of actually establishing whether or not the photographic and video “evidence” used for drawing conclusions is actually real or not before any actual conclusions are made, and to instead just automatically assume that they are real, and therefor the conclusions drawn are valid.

Nice , but not a sound,scientific methodology at all, as far as I can see .

In your defense however, it is “par for the course” with regard to “scientists” and the “scientific method” used for attempting to understand what happened on 911.

Regards,onebornfree

There can be no good reason for anyone familiar with the scientific method to seriously suggest comparing a piece [or pieces] of network video footage or photos, to an entire body of established scientific research and theory obtained through years of controlled laboratory experiment [other than, perhaps, obfuscation, or self delusion, or possibly to dismiss/discredit any such scientific research/theory].

I’m not comparing specifically this footage to an entire body of established scientific research. I’m saying footage in general is reliable until given good reason to think otherwise, especially when people/other video’s corroborate it. It’s odd, cause all of the videos show planes. And yet you won’t find stories of the thousands and thousands of people in Manhattan at the time asked or even approached by government officials to surrender their cameras or camcorders or cellphones. And yet you expect people to take the no planes theory on the same level as the official story?