Heres something I’ve been wanting an answer to for some time.
Im from Sweden. In Sweden we have socialized medicine, and all the problems associated with that. In general, though, Swedish health care is ok, if you are lucky enough to actually get it in time. We have long lines, inefficient allocation of resources, its costly, and a bunch of other things associated with socialized medicine. But once you actually get the care, its at least ok.
Most people in Sweden agree that it is bad, at least the people I debate with, but when the alternative comes up (being “private medicine”), the one and only argument you hear is: “Ok, but look at USA… they dont have socialized medicine, and look how bad it is there”.
I dont know that much about US health care, but I do know its not socialized in any sense comparable to Swedish medicine, even though you have some things such as medicare. It is also my understanding that US health care is not working that well either, which is why this argument always seems to have some weight in discussions.
So why is the US health care system not working that well? Or am I wrong, and it is working well? Please enlighten me.
Don’t you still have some private hospitals there? In here, there is one particular hospital enterprise that started in a small town, and is florishing because there is little wait time, from exams to operations. I have heard complains of some medics (in here, there is a shortage of medics, so I guess it must be hard to have enough of good ones), but the wait time and the quality service (nurses are very attentious, and the place is very clean). You could point out how a much smaller organization can compete with a big government one (I do have insurance, so I’m not sure how expensive it is for someone that doesn’t have one).
Public hospitas are a mess here. Sometime ago, they tried to implement devices to check the ponctuality of the medics in one hospital as an experiment. In the end of the day, they were banalized. The health minister threaden with putting cameras there, but he was put out of office shortly after. I have a few medics in my family, so I know they don’t exactly feel pressured to be ponctual. I have been wanting to document how things are organized in some hospitals here…
Anyhow, do you have some horror stories to share? Here, just this month, a woman found her husband dead when, after sometime, she impatiently entered in the emergency room, and he was lying in the floor dead, alone. You could also compile those to make your case…
Edit: in case you don’t notice, I’m from Portugal. I too am curious to know how are things in the USA.
Yeah we do have some private hospitals, but not that many. And they are fairly expensive (which is not so strange really). A couple of years ago a law was passed, or almost passed, called the “stop law” which prohibited running a hospital profitable. You could run a hospital privately.You just werent allowed to run it with profit. Its not like that now though, since we have some private hospitals. And they are very regulated.
And of course, when I make my case there are loads of horror examples to choose from. People waiting 3-4 months to get cancer aid (and then, of course, die becuase they get help to late). Or machines used to combat cancer that stand inoperable in hospital rooms, because there is a shortage of personell. The former swedish prime minister, a socialist, who spoke highly of the swedish health care system, had to have a hip surgery. He waited and waited, and got no help… so after I dont know how long, he went ahead and paid for it. Something he wanted to be against the law.
But bringing up those horror stories doesnt do much good, because people look with shock to USA and dont want it like that. The arguments range from
Not everyone has access to medical care. In fact a lot of people don’t
Its really expensive
We dont want medical cared based on money priorities (which, btw, is always the case… even in socialized medicine)
Basically, I want to know why US health care is expensive and why it isnt working particularly well. Despite it being more privatized than Swedish health care.
The reason US healthcare is as it is is because it is hardly private. It’s heavily regulated and controlled. People tend to think of it as private because private firms are involved, but this is immaterial. Anyway, here’s a good article by Stephan Karlsson that details what US healthcare is actually like. If you can get your hands on it, I’d recommend David Kelley’s A Life of One’s Own, in which he refutes the myth of a US free market healthcare system.
The problem with US healthcare isn’t the quality, it’s the cost. Although there is alot of gov interference in the U.S system which the high costs can partly be attributed to.
Thanks! That was a good blog post my Stefan. It just occured to me that one of the reasons why Sweidsh health care costs are comparatively lower than in USA is due to the fact that the medical professionals in Sweden get paid a lot less, due to the fact that they work in public hospitals. Thats actually a good point Stefan makes, one which I have failed to think of myself.
Also, I didnt know that 45% or more of the health care in USA was funded by the government. Thats really a lot higher than I thought it would be.
Another problem is that the medical providors are more or less employed by the insurance companies, which are effectively extensions of the state. In the first place, insurance is basically a means of socializing risk, which would drive prices up anyway. But more than that, they are heavily subsidized in some cases, required by law in others, and heavily entangled with the government in all. It is they who are driving the cost of medical care up, and they would not be able to do it if they didn’t have the state as an accomplice.
The health care system is not broken. Everyone who needs care gets care. The care is very fast and excellent.
Everyone over the age of 65 (regardless of income) receives free medical care, including greatly reduced prices on prescription drugs.
In the state of (I don’t know about other states), all children of “poor” parents receive free medical care.
Most people and their families are covered by insurance from their employer.
It is illegal to reject someone when they come to an emergency room for care. Therefore, the uninsured that are “poor” use the emergency room for regular doctor visits and any other care they may need (no matter how much is costs). Since the “poor” do not have assets, the hospital absorbs this cost.
People who are uninsured and are not “poor” (and therefore have assets that the hospital could seize) do have a problem. But the problem is one of priorities. Private health care insurance in the is relatively inexpensive in the form of High Deductible Health Plan (HDHP) insurance. These people chose not buy insurance in favor of using the money on more enjoyable pursuits. They basically hope they never get sick.
All of the above are also available to illegal immigrants.
The only people pushing for socialized medicine are:
The Socialists who want to control the lives of the people.
The large corporations who are currently paying the cost of most medical insurance.
US health care is the best in the world…if you can afford it. The problem with our current health care system is a few things:
Heavy regulations. We have so many different regulations that hospitals, doctors and insurance companies must spend billions and billions of dollars to comply.
Government subsidized insurance companies. Medicare/Medicaid and SCHIPS pay out billions of dollars to health insurance companies and doctors who jack up the rate because We the People are footing the bill.
It is illegal to turn someone away when they come to the emergency room. So when one of the 30+ million illegal aliens decides to have another kid or gets sick they go to the ER and receive top notch medical care – and they don’t pay for it. Because they don’t pay for it hospitals and doctors have to raise their rates to cover these people who don’t pay up. But it’s not just the illegals who do it. There are lots of citizens who do it as well.
This is the SINGLE BIGGEST REASON why medical insurance is expensive in this country and I’m surprised no one mentioned it.
The dollar. The dollar has lost over 20% of its value since last year and it keeps falling. As everyone knows as the dollar falls in value to “cost” of goods and services go up. It takes more money to buy the same amount of medical care today than it did yesterday. The problem is no ones wages are really keeping up with “inflation.” I just got a wopping 75 cent an hour raise the other day! Woo! I wonder what the extra $125 a month is going to buy me? Oh right! Nothing because the dollar is dropping like a rock in value! A weakening dollar is directly responsible for the rising cost of health insurance, the rising cost of gasoline, the rising cost of food and the rising cost of education and other goods and services.
If the dollar was strong we could deal with the other problems in our health care system. But we have a weak dollar and it’s only getting weaker. That is what’s wrong with the US health care system.
I couldn’t agree more kingmonkey. I would just add, that it is not toooooo expensive quite yet. I am buying my own insurance (BCBS) here for $270 a month, full family (wife and two children), and a $5,000 deductible. I checked for my cousin, a single guy, and he can get insurance (Medica) for $129 a month, with a $2500 deductible. That isn’t unreasonable.
Oh, one other thing to add, another problem with our system, is the insentive for the third party (employer covered). If we all had personal policies, there would be no issues with people losing insurance when they change jobs, due to “previous conditions” uncoverable under a new policy.
Wow thanks. I didnt know that 3 was the case. Seems obvious that if its illegal to turn people away, at all (even people who wont pay), its gonna lead to over usage. Also, I suppose, its bad for the ER and people coming in to the ER if there is a long line there, since it after all IS for emergencies.
Exactly how are the insurance companies subsidized? They are not government run, correct? But they receive grants from the state in order to insure people that can not afford to insure themselves?
To add to what Inquisitor said, I don’t think the formal ‘ownership’ of health care is as important as who controls it. In many ways its run by the state, and many regulations are stricter in the US than in Europe (e.g. its much harder to become a doctor or get prescription drugs approved). If I had to guess, I’d say that private ownership combined with state planning and control (which is what the US has) is actually worse than complete state ownership in a democracy, because of the health care provider’s large rent-seeking incentives. I have no data to back this guess up.
I’d also guess that the quality of government in the US is significantly worse than western Europe’s, but I have no data to back that up either.
Can’t be as bad as for a Dr. in Cuba - who can’t get a second date:
" One Cuban young woman complains to another. “He lied to me! He told me that he was a luggage handler! It turns out, he’s nothing but a neurosurgeon!”
Luggage handlers working the tourist hotels often make more in one day than medical doctors receive in a month."
One factor in the cost of US healthcare that I haven’t seen mentioned here yet is tort abuse. Many doctors pay more than their own annual salary in liability insurance to cover themselves against lawsuits.
Good point. And probably many, many other factors. If one were to list all the ways government failure has driven the cost of healthcare up, they could easily write a treatise-length book.
The US manages to incorporate the worst aspects of private and socialized medicine into a single system. Insurance is a terrible way to pay for anything less than large, out-of-the-ordinary casualties. Workplace regulations and other legislation have caused insurance to displace first party transactions, and insurers are also largely prohibited from discriminating among risks. Since this would otherwise mean no insurer could keep its doors open, they just keep raising premiums and doctors keep raising fees.
I have been wanting to document how things are organized in some hospitals here…
Here, just this month, a woman found her husband dead when, after sometime, she impatiently entered in the emergency room, and he was lying in the floor dead, alone. You could also compile those to make your case…