i found hany farid’s work rather fascinating.
the professional “witnesses” get a good work-out here;
http://www.nwopodcast.com/fetz/media/jim%20fetzer%20real%20deal-twin%20towers%20fakery%20ii.mp3
My father was a witness. Actually saw the plane approach the WTC, (was on break). He noticed the plane not flying steady.
While I know we are not getting the full story. It could be just as simple as government letting it happen. No need for some vast cover-up. Let the terrorists do the planning and make sure it gets done.
Seems easier than staging a fake attack.
can you elaborate further on your father’s testimony, please?
it’s anecdotal evidence.
The existence of this thread is a disgrace to this forum, to the libertarian movement, and to America.
Yeah, I think the more complicated conspiracies (controlled demolition, no airplanes,etc) are pretty retarded for a variety of reasons. Hell, they might be realeased by the government secretly to discredit serious possibilities, knowing that most people will assume (correctly) that the big conspiracy theories are stupid.
On the other hand, I wouldn’t be too surprised if the government had some idea of the plan and did nothing, either because of incompetence or because they wanted to take advantage of the situation. Hell, it is even possible that the CIA actually funded Al Qaeda proper (not the Taliban/Mujahadeen, who were definitely funded by the CIA but were NOT AQ).
But if there were no planes, explain where the passengers went. Certainly they aren’t around any more, or else the conspiracy would have been exposed immediately. They couldn’t have ALL been in on it or been fictional, as that would require that several hundred people from all walks of life and many with families just up and left to do something with the US government/the families are all in on it, which is unlikely to say the least. There weren’t kidnapped in the middle of a large airport (a disturbance would have been noticed, obviously). So where are they?
Why is here so much focus on some fishy and incomplete/false “evidence” of videos like “September Clues” or “Loose Change”, when there is undeniable evidence proving that the collapse of the towers and WTC 7 were controlled demolitions and not due to fire?
Just watch this 2 hour talk demonstrating why the collapses were controlled demolitions (1500+ engineers/architects support this btw):
http://www.youtube.com/user/ae911truth#p/c/621A4B03C1169C78/3/Eo8nJHciHQ8
Video proving that firefighters were in the 79th floor minutes before the mysterious collapse:
cherry picking and confirmation bias.
Hearsay actually.
regards, onebornfree
Spoken like a real libertarian!
regards, onebornfree
But if the passengers were also faked , then there would be no real grieving families, only hired actors going through the motions of contrived grief.
Perhaps: no planes, no passengers, no [ or very few] grieving families ?
There is a lot of research into the backgrounds of the purported plane passengers and it tends to lead in one direction [in my opinion], passenger list fakery.
I won’t trouble you with links to that research- there would be no point because like most, to be blunt , you are:
[1] probably incapable of analyzing all of it from start to finish with a either a completely neutral [i.e. “scientific” ] ,openly curious, mindset,
or [2] of analyzing all of it with an automatic pre-bias against any/all parts of the government/media story ,where all parts of the official story must be consistently held to a higher standard of proof, from start to finish [i.e. with what I have elsewhere called “a realistic anarcho-libertarian mindset”],
but would instead allow your own pre-existing prejudices and “certain knowledge” to lead you to confirm what you already know, which is, at this point in time, that all of the passengers “must” have actually existed.
In my opinion, either of those two mindsets are the only two useful tools for analysis of events like 9/11.
Besides which , if you really want to find out about any such passenger research , you will find it regardless, right?
Regards, onebornfree.
Do you people see how you all focus on the stupidest part about 9/11 truth.
“HUHUH there were no planes!”
and then all of the geniueses come out of the woodwork to destroy that myth. and those people think they are smart for it…
You are at cognitive dissonance if you are saying there is nothing fishy about that event. You are also at cognative dissonace when you focus on “exposing” the most obvious part fable of it. Both types of people FEAR the possibilities, so they focus on the most obvious myth that 9/11 truthers perpetuate. and that gives them closure that they have some sense of understanding, when in reality they do not and will likely refuse to do their own research rather than depending on “conspiracy theory” movies made by canadaian teenagers. The no planes theory is a complete fable thought up by people trying to incorporate “bluebeam” into it. 'Project Bluebeam" was written about in a science fiction novel. It is only believed by super fanatical christians who think that the whole world wants to distinguish their religion. LIKE EVERY OTHER RELIGION.
I hope the people on here understand what i am saying.
Pentagon, building 7, war games & air defense response, free fall speed of the buildings, 25 year geopolitical war strategy documents (PNAC, CoR), video tapes of pentagon, The Sec. of Transportation’s testimony, Sibel Edmund’s testimony, the 9/11 commissioner saying “The white house obstructed our investigation,” GWBush and Dick C. testifying together, not under oath, and being allowed to plead the 5th.
Look those over, cause, “no planes” is not among them retards.
fuck.
The real issue is that evidence that is promulgated by government as the primary or exclusive source (and, to an extent, the major corporate media) should be held as worthless at best, misleading at worst. The Zapruder film, for example, has been proven to be a complete hoax. Go see for yourself… any one of the forgery mistakes at that website would be damning. It would not be shocking or beyond belief if the government and media were to collude in faking 9/11 footage or passenger lists or lists of dead in the towers. However, trying to prove it turns into a rabbit-hole. Rabbit-holes are exactly where the counter-intelligence people want to keep 9/11 truthers. You have to get out of the rabbit-hole and stick to the top 3 reasons why the man on the street should stop uncritically accepting the official conspiracy theory. Jacob already put a good list forward. For me, these are the top 2 reasons the man on the street should stop uncritically accepting the official conspiracy theory:
-
WTC 7 collapsed suddenly, straight down, symmetrically into its own footprint when it had been subject to no core column damage and uneven (though intense) office fires, most of which had been doused by the time of the collapse. It had not been hit by an airplane. Its foundation was sound.
-
FAA/NORAD completely failed to intercept any of the hijacked aircraft. Flight 93 crashed at 10:03am - the first indication of hijack was ascertained no later than 8:20am - a full hour and forty minutes earlier. Jet aircraft can be scrambled in under 5 minutes and FAA procedure at the time was that air traffic control was to notify the chain of command after an airplane exhibits unusual behavior (loss of radio contact, transponder going off, going off course/altitude… all of which the hijacked aircraft did on 9/11). The principle then was, as it is now, “better safe than sorry”… better to scramble a plane and not need it than vice-versa.
No amount of white-washing and “9/11 debunking” can get around these two glaring problems. We don’t need 1,000 reasons to believe 9/11 was an inside job, we just need one or two intractable knots in the official lies. If a person wants to delve deeper, they are free to do so. The 9/11 truth movement should restrict its public case to the one or two most indisputable and layman-accessible problems in the official conspiracy theory (which I think are points 1 and 2 above).
Clayton -
Oh, please do not start with that JFK nonsense. Interesting that the people who once claimed the Zapruder film was proof of a conspiracy now claim it was forged to support “the official story.”
It was just terrorists, it was just Oswald, and Alan Shepard really did golf on the moon. Sorry that history isn’t exciting enough for you.
I don’t know about Zapruder. I feel like those things are red herrings, there is a lot of evidence that is not admitted into courts through corrupt practices by DAs and judges.
and Dude, history is way more exciting when you actually know it. You are at cognative dissonance. Think of how distorted the economics field is…you think politics is cleaner?
Oswald was a patsy that was chosen by David Ferry (a pedophiliac CIA agent) when they were both at the Civil Air Patrol in Baton Rouge with Barry Seal (A CIA drug smuggler who was assassinated by the columbian drug cartel and who had GHWBushs personal phone number in his wallet at the time). Oswald was setup by the CIA to be an informant in Cuba. That is why there are pictures and public comments of him supporting Communism. It was a way to get an American dissident in their country. He was to be used in a plot to assassinate Castro. The actual operation, which Oswald was not a part of, was called Operation 40. It is the same CIA hit squad that killed Che Guevara and it operated from Dallas to Baton Rogue to Cuba. It was likely headed by Felix Rodriguez.
JFK had managed to piss off:
Allen Dulles ( ~20 CIA director, ~40 CFR Director) by calling off the bay of pgs at the last minute and deposing Dulles as head of CIA, then installing RFK as another layer oversight inbetween the Joint Chiefs and CIA. ← This is huge. If you understand how the CIA operates and how black operations are signed off on how the president is allowed “plausible deniability.” The Pentagon and CIA…
George H W Bush: The "Bay of Pigs’ is a slang term for what was actually called “Operation Zapata.” Zapata was GHWB’s oil company at the time. All throughout history drug money has been laundered through oil and shipping companies. Zapata was one of the one’s CIA used to launder illicit drug money. This is why GHWB goes from obscurity in the corporate world to CIA director. He had connections.
The Mafia: By the same means as GHWB. This is the period of ime when the “mafia” became “legitimate.” Wonder why you never really hear about organized crime anymore? The governments of the world merged with them.
LBJ & RMN: LBJ and RMN are the to political sponsors of these particular activites. LBJ was another (like Bush) corrup texas business man who was in cahootz with the mafia and the drug smuggling/prostitution game. Nixon was the Congressional head of the CIA section that oversaw Operation 40. Jack Rubenstein was an Congressional intern for Nixon as well as a mafia enforcer.
The plot to assassinate Castro fell apart because JFK said no official support. This was the biggest embarassment to Allen Dulles career that there ever was. Look at the commission to investigate JFK’s assassination; The Warren Commission. Who was its chairman? Allen Dulles.
The operation was led by the CIA and signed off on by the Joint Chiefs. The political players are the most obvious beneficiaries from the outcome. A legitimate investigation would have uncovered all of the mafia and drug connections for all of the people involved.
*shrug - I’m no expert in forgery but even I can see the mistakes in the Zapruder film as laid out on the above-linked website.
Well, even by the government’s own admission, it wasn’t just terrorists. CIA had links with bin Laden and al-Qaeda since at least the 1980’s. So get your facts straight.
Yes, and it was just Hinckley and it was just Booth, and so on. After a while, isn’t the “lone nut acting alone” story a little cliche?
I don’t know if the moon landings were faked but I wouldn’t be shocked or surprised if they were.
Clayton -
The astronauts placed a mirror on the moon so we could shine a laser to it. No joke. We have been to the moon. It is like the greatest technological leap humanity has ever made.
But that’s not exciting, what IS exciting is that it could have been filmed on Earth by the CIA and NASA a a way to fool people in some satanic worshipping ceremony.
Who know what goes on with “the nasa masons and the god damn corrupt illuminati.”
What makes you say that?
Regards, onebornfree