Is it “hip” to protest conscription in Germany or is it seen as a good thing by people in general? How long has it existed? Either way when it comes to the state preaching “equality” such as the case with men and women thier hypocracy shows no bounds. Not only do they blatantly preach one thing and do another, but they try to make you feel stupid for calling them out on it. (It’s fun/hip/and smart to giggle at cheesy propaganda from the 40’s, the other party, or whatever, just not the propaganda that is being fed to you)
I have oh so much to learn yet. It’s self-evident that the church and the military are the foundations of libertarianism…
Also, collective self-defense is totally compatible with an individualist philosophy like libertarianism…
ps: I didn’t notice yet another of your blunders…A ‘libertarian’ state ? What would that be, exactly ?
libertarian state…libertarian state…sounds odd.
I really don’t see why to encourage someone to go into the military side of a draft over a civilian sector, the military side there is more of a chance someone will order me to kill some one that I have no interest in killing. I personally don’t think getting in shape and learning discipline is worth that.
I think he meant that he picks the second as more contrary.
Seriously, this. Especially if you get the option to “test up” to any specialized training (bomb disarming, EWS, and “cyber defense”).
Really? Why don’t you go study German unification and see why you’re wrong.
Really Juan, how do you think that aggressors will be dealt with without the state? Lectured about the NAP and then told to do as they please? No, in fact, when the state collapses under its own weight and security begins to be supplied privately the military will be high demand.
Come to think of it, this will be a good exercise for tax compliance. After all, if you’re fine with the state taking 100% of your labor, then paying 50%+ in taxes will hardly hurt. Won’t it?
Unfortunately, civilian armament is so restricted that step 1 is not legally possible for me. This sort of reinforces Byzantine’s point about getting firearms training, but then again …
Well, they did. Before WWII, the draft was used to build up armies for invasion. Now it is used to train soldiers to protect the homeland and support international human rights endeavors.
Or, as some cheesy poster informed me, the military is here to “help, protect, mediate and fight”.
That came to my mind as well. Problem is, your superiors in most of these civic institutions are actually glad to have your cheap labor and are not shy to remind you of your slave worker status. Of course, they’ll do it more politely than a sergeant in the military, but still.
What I could to do, though, is let economics and incentive structures run naturally - I, as a slave worker, have no particular interest in improving the value of capital structures under my supervision. And since my wage is fixed, I’m quite incentivized to not overwork. Still, I don’t like this work attitude. If I do something, I wanna do it right. But my libertarian conscience revolts against submitting to this system.
I’m not afraid that I’ll be put amidst rapists and murderers, but, you know, having served a few years time doesn’t look too good if you ever want to join the bourgeois culture. Especially as an employee.
Because I’m white and nerdy. [:(]
Has been existing for 50 years+ and, of course, in the dark times before as well. Protesting is not hip at all. It sort of was during the Vietnam phase, but not enough political momentum could be mustered to abolish it. Today, it’s bon ton to “do your duty” if you can’t get out the official way.
When I talked to some of my relatives about it, they were quite shocked that I wanted to get out in the first place and admonished me to “to repay my debt to the state” for 13 years of public indoctrination.
That’s special unit training. I’d have to sign up for a few years to get this kind of qualification, and it would entail being deployed overseas should there be a need. Quite the dangerous route if you ask me.
Actually, I have a German friend doing his service this year also, he’s working in a hospital I think, he’s looking forward to it actually.
If people are stolen from to pay for it, yes. Because if people are stolen from to pay for it, then they may not have been willing to pay for it in the first place, making the action unjust.
Do you really believe that or are you being sarcastic ?
Why not sabotage your work? Do the worst work and you’ll be the last on their list to ask to get things done.
It depends what you mean by “minimal military service”
Any form of draft is slavery - and violates individual sovereignty, and is thus as un-libertarian as it is possible to be
If you meant the existence of some form of military, then so long as it is non-coercive, and non-aggressive it is of course fine
Zivildienst
It’s still coercive if funded by taxation, or imposed by law etc.
But you know this so why even say it?
To add to my other post, I will make clear what I meant
A “voluntary state” (if that is non-oxymoronic) which requires military service as a part of citizenship is legitimate
Say what? That I have a German friend who is looking forward to doing service? Because it’s true, I suppose.
There are situations in which such mandatory service programs may come in handy for an individual, e.g. if you don’t know yet what to do after school and can’t find a normal job or if you generally like being a soldier / care worker and this is just the first step of your anticipated career.
However, for me, this just delays my actual plans for one year and gives everyone who doesn’t have to do it (women, men with enough luck and medical certificates) a head start.
If I did believe that killing people becomes morally right when it’s done in the name of human rights and democracy, I’d be on the wrong message board here I’d reckon.
That’s the economics of forced labor; people have no incentive to work properly and things just don’t really progress. I guess they’ve calculated this in their payment schemes already, it may be the reason why you’ll only get 3 euros per hour for the job.
Firstly, I don’t think libertarians should mimic MS-13. We want to try to blend in and look like normal people, remember?
And besides, I DON’T WANT TO KILL FOR THE STATE.
Is there an exemption for being religiously opposed to military involvement? I think we have something like that in the US…
No, for that purpose, they introduced civilian service. But you have to do something, regardless of your religious views.