Lew Rockwell Comment on PFC Manning

Miscellaneous General
1

On his blog today, Lew Rockwell wrote this about the Wikileaks source-man who is currently being held in a military brig:

“In typical police state fashion, this young man is awakened every five minutes during the night, so that he cannot fall into REM sleep, and not allowed to sleep at all during the day. This is intended to damage him psychologically and physically, as are the other Gulag-style deprivations.”

Now, here is what the site of which he links to really said:

“The guards are required to check on PFC Manning every five minutes by asking him if he is okay. PFC Manning is required to respond in some affirmative manner. At night, if the guards cannot see PFC Manning clearly, because he has a blanket over his head or is curled up towards the wall, they will wake him in order to ensure he is okay.”

Definitely a far cry from the mental images and sounds I had at first of a darkened cell being brightened with loud sonic pulses all around me while I desperately try to sleep.

I sent an e-mail to him to rescind his comment, but I doubt he will. It is not enough to say that the state is inefficient, and that private firms may perform its traditional functions to better utility. In Rockwell’s world view, the government, and every individual who works for it must be completely evil (except Ron Paul, he has to add). Its not just some mild tyranny, this is the most oppressive regime the world has known! He may have made his jibe in error, misread or such. Yet, to each and every one of the persons who take his every word as truth he is performing a great disservice.

Exagerrating the abuses of the state may or may not help win popular support, but the point where we go from exposing the truth, to distorting it to suit our ends, then we are no better than the people we decry.

2

That reminds me of the typical lists of excuses given by the prisons for why black prisoners died in apartheid South Africa:

  1. Fell down stairs

  2. Hit head on toilet

  3. Hanged self

The point is, based on one’s outlook on the State, one could easily extrapolate (from the link) what Lew did. Knowing what the State is capable of, I don’t think that that is too far fetched at all. I can imagine first that the guards don’t exactly have a high view of Manning, and I can imagine that abuse can be covered up very easily. I also know the human rights violations that go on all the time unchecked in prisons like these.

So it’s possible that it really is just innocent. Your bias is what determines what you extrapolate from a potentially ‘neutral’ statement.

3

Though I agree with Mr. Schnapps, I also have my fair share of disagreements with Lew Rockwell, among them being giving that quack Mercola a voice. So I’m just saying that you always have to look at information critically.

4

As an aside: “[…] they will wake him in order to ensure he is okay.” Okay? He’s being held against his will.

5

“Oh hai. You’re a prisoner. Are you okay?”

6

How do we know this Bradly Manning even exists?He could easily be a convenient fiction.

For example, this person says:

"Bradley Manning is a Fictitious Person

By DallasGoldBug (Reporter)

I demand the government provide us with proof that the person they claims is behind the Wikileaks leak, the same individual they claim to have in custody, is a real person.

Where are interviews with his mother, of his father? (VIDEO INTERVIEWS)

Why aren’t the mainstream media camped out on his Aunt front lawn? Interviewing his neighbors? Painting a picture of him from VIDEO interviews from anyone close to him in his life.

I’ve debunked his DD forms that were posted online, reportedly showing his charges as a forgery, not even good ones at that.

I’ve debunked the hand full of photo released online reported to show Manning holding gay pride signs, and in the arms of his “lover” which have obvious signs of fakery.

Why are there no video footage of him growing up, or interviews done with his childhood friends?

Where is his mug shot?

You will only see Photoshop images of him and those I have debunked in my other articles.

There is absolutely NO, let me repeat myself, NO evidence that provided thus far that would prove he is actually a real, living and breathing person. ABSOLUTELY NONE.
…
You will never see such evidence, the only thing you will see is a courtroom sketch of him, and I’m sure it will be in a suggestive pose to stir up some kind of opinion of him. Then he will be sentenced to life in the underground prison in Colorado never to be seen or herd from again. Just like all the other false flag operations. Underwear bomber, shoe bomber, times square bomber, Jihad Jane, the latest FBI setups, the list goes on and on.

Court room sketches then disappear, all fake, all created to con you. Wake UP!.."

regards, onebornfree.

7

Lew Rockwell lied. Nobody died.

Bush lied. Many died.

8

Big deal.

9

Whether or not Rockwell is telling the truth is one thing, but to lie is ok as long as no one dies? What point were you trying to convey through that comparison? If I suspect someone is lying, regardless of who gets hurt, it just undermines any effort that I’ll make to take that person seriously.

10

if the procedure which goal is to damage someone psychologically and physically is not the same as what is being currently done to this guy as written in the article cited by Lew Rockwell(or if we assume that what the guy is enduring because of this 5-minute check-up is not actually causing him any additional psychological and physical pain) then what Lew wrote can not be counted as lie, but as a misinterpretation of what is going on. He is not informing us about something that happens but is not mentioned in the article, he is just giving us his interpretation of what is happening that is already described in the article. And his interpretation is wrong only if the guy does not actually feel worse off because of the check-up compared to what he would have felt if the check-ups did not occur. since I am not familiar with any procedures that try to achive such a goal, I can only imagine that the guy is worse off.

the other thing is that the very justification for the check-ups is not very clear. according to the article they aim at checking if the guy is okay. and this happens every 5 minutes. what wrong can go on in 5 minutes that requires such a routine action? and if the guy is not okay - wouldn’t he just tell the guards himself?

11

Sounds about the same to me.

They are allowed to wake him in the night when they feel like it. Under the excuse that they have to check his well-being; of course, to avoid charges of torture and seem ‘humane’. And he has to respond. On top of that, who knows what is actually happening anyway.

It seems excessive to say that Lew lied.

12

Strictly speaking, Lew Rockwell doesn’t seem to be lying. Being awakened every five minutes would probably not allow someone to fall into REM sleep. The manner of being awakened is rather immaterial, isn’t it? Now, while no one can prove (in a legalistic sense) that this is being done “to damage him psychologically and physically”, nevertheless psychological and physical damage will likely result from it. Furthermore, it seems strange to me that they must check on him every five minutes, day and night.

13

How did Lew Rockwell lie? The part you quoted says that the guards ask him if he’s okay every five minutes and will wake him if he doesn’t respond affirmatively. Not to mention all the other stuff listed on that site which is clearly just to torture him.

14

I don’t get it, just from the two paragraphs you sited you have stated the exact same thing. You do realize that there are multiple ways to report the same facts, correct? That is what concerns the butcher may not concern the baker or the candlestick maker.

15

Telpeurion lied.

The article doesn’t make it absolutely clear that they are waking him all night long. It seems a little ambiguous to me. But I see nothing to indicate that Lew lied.

16

why does he have to be checked on every five minutes? i havent been to prison or jail before, but i am pretty sure guards dont check on you every five minutes…

17

Even in central bookings holding cells in New York(where they first put you after an arrest before you see the judge to decide bail and whatnot) the cops go around and mess with people’s heads telling them lies like “The judge went home for the day, you guys gotta sit here for another week before you know whats gonna happen!”(and its a terrible smelling dirty 250square foot room with like 30 people in it and a nasty overflowing toilet).

The people who are in charge of any jail or prison HATE YOUR GUTS. No matter who you are. Treat you worse than an animal at a zoo- because at least zoo animals have some value to the owner. lol its a joke to believe that they wake up him just to make sure he’s ok. Get the hell outta here with that nonsense.

18

"Telpeurion lied.

The article doesn’t make it absolutely clear that they are waking him all night long. It seems a little ambiguous to me. But I see nothing to indicate that Lew lied."

Actually, she is not lying. She may be mistaken about whether or Lew is lying (which I believe, but I may also be mistaken of course), but she is not deliberately making a false assertion. And the article does in fact say exactly what she quoted. The guards are required to check on him every five minutes to see if he is ok, by asking him, and getting a response.

19

Has anyone on this forum ever worked in a military prison of any kind? I seriously doubt it. Lew Rockwell certainly hasn’t.

I have. Prison guards, especially military ones, are bound by rules. When the guards violate them, as they did at Abu Ghraib, the backlash is severe. In fact, one reason military prison facilities are so underfunded and inefficient is that more attention is focused on watching the guards than the prisoners.

I generally respect Rockwell’s opinions, even when I disagree with them, but in this case, he’s just spreading propaganda. Perhaps he should consider doing some actual research before deciding to cry wolf to defend this low-life. The soldiers who guard Manning are trained professionals who have a job to do. If they did have a choice in the matter, I’m willing to bet they wouldn’t speak to Manning at all.

Soldiers are free-born citizens like the rest of us, and Rockwell would do better if he tried to influence them instead of declaring them all to be criminals. Like it or not, in the future, the Libertarian cause will need military support.

20

They are all criminals.

Oh really? What happened to the guards from Abu Ghraib?

Manning isn’t a low life. He hasn’t been charged with a crime. Don’t you remember the glorious civil liberties that make you such an exceptional American?

And that job is to torture and kidnap an innocent man.

There is no such thing as a citizen.

They are all criminals.

No libertarian future worth having will need psychopaths.