Which ones have you tried playing? You might’ve played all the same genre- there are so many games out there you cannot have played a few and then say you know what all games are like. I never understood the condescending attitude of “I have fun in REAL life buddy”- lol you’re still in real life when you play games, would you never watch a movie or read a good story because you’re already having the time of your life? Im not even sure what genre to put a game like this for example http://www.gametrailers.com/video/remember-trailer-flower/45646
I take a lot of games as interactive art- instead of just being the receiver of the stimulus(like watching a movie or tv show), you can to an extent control what is going on. Games like Oblivion or Zelda have beautiful fantasy landscapes that you can go out and explore- the work that’s put into this stuff is pretty heavy- i mean to each his own but I think its a bit of a shame when someone kinda throws out giving some games a chance. Missing out on an amazing experience that’s had a lot of time put into it- you don’t have to play a first person shooter where the only goal is to kill the opposing team and get to the end of the path.(I can’t even categorize all first person shooters like that)
ITT: A bunch of radical libertarians who don’t play video games making horrible generalizations and speaking out of ignorance about an entertainment platform they don’t even use or participate in. [:O]
I’m sorry, but it would be like me talking about how awful opera is even though I’VE NEVER BEEN TO THE OPERA.
This thread reminds me of the incredible wave of nonsense that erupted after Columbine where everyone blamed TV, Marilyn Manson, video games and God knows what else for causing the shootings when in reality it was just a couple of crazy teenagers who made some really bad decisions.
Everyone ignored what I said about snuff films too. I’ve watched them, they’re still very intense even after years of “desensitization” from violent media. If someone feels the same indifference about blowing up a real human being with a tank as they do when blowing up a bunch of pixels with another bunch of pixels on Xbox Live then maybe that should tell us more about human nature/human psychology than it tells us about the effects of an entertainment platform.
ADD-ON: Look, I know you guys have good hearts and sound minds and you care a lot about things like morality and justice and I admire you guys for that. But I do think that if you just sit down and play a couple of these games that you’ll find them to be very entertaining and not as awful as you thought they were going to be. If you spend a good two or three weeks playing the titles you’re disparaging and you still feel the same way about them as you do now, then at least you have the experience to back up your view. But I’m still willing to bet you’ll find a game you really enjoy.
Exactly. There’s just so many out there its just impossible not to find one that would suit your tastes. This is probably going down the wrong road by mentioning it- but I kinda feel as if a lot of people on this forum are completely out of touch with their emotions. Games have come a long way and can be a very emotional experience- if you’re not in touch with them its no wonder you can’t find anything interesting about them.
It’s very good. It is a third person RPG. Mass Effect 1 is not as ‘open’ as Fallout but it seems to be more open in the second one which is coming out in a week. Good plot though and +30 hours of game time so it is pretty long. You control how your character reacts and it affects the game. I’d certainly recommend it if you like solid RPG’s or sci fi.
well I mentioned that’s how I felt- its an opinion from the vibes that come off. I’m not trying to logically explain something that’s not logical. And what am I being an apologist for?
Games series like Metal Gear(especially Metal gear Solid 4) or Zelda, or Kingdom Hearts are meant to be a rollercoaster ride of emotions- if one doesn’ t see games that way and only sees it as a logical activity where you press buttons on reaction to what’s on screen then how can they enjoy it?
Then you should try thinking instead of hiding behind your “vibes”.
What isn’t logical?
You’re doing the exact same thing the “video games are lolart” crowd. They wave the incense in front of gaming, and accuse dissenters of being out of touch (translates into old people).
There are plenty of out of touch people here, and by out of touch, I mean since the 80’s. Generalizing all games as violent first person shooters is quite ridiculous, specially when gamers are constantly threaten by statist censorship and regulation.
I’m not hiding behind them- I’m directly telling you its a point that is coming from how I feel. Vibes aren’t a bad thing you know.
The way I felt about some people being out of touch with their emotions. Its an emotional conclusion- not a logical one.
Well it is art. How can you possibly think otherwise? There’s new landscapes, creatures, and stories that are created for someone’s enjoyment, with themes, messages, and meaning that the creators are trying to convey while they try to make the interactivity with the environment as enjoyable as possible.
Being a dissenter to gaming is just like being a dissenter to any form of art. Its fine if you wanna do that. But I didn’t say that dissenters are “out of touch” with the times or anything- I said they’re out of touch with their emotions. That doesn’t mean you’re a bad person- but it makes it pretty hard to enjoy many games that are out there with that kind of filter.
What I’m saying is more coming from z1235 and his statement that hes tried a few games and that they’re all the same to him. I don’t see how that makes any sense at all considering how many different games are out there.
Yes, people who do not want to simulate violence, and do not rationalize and equivocate doing non-libertarian things in VR are the ones out of touch with their emotions. [8-)]
Not all games are about simulating violence against another person. Adventuring around in mountains in Legend of Zelda and fighting monsters who attack you, while you try to figure out the puzzle to get inside the cave in the mountain(possibly by doing a townsperson a favor)- I don’t see what’s so non-libertarian about that. You’re categorizing all games into one genre, don’t you think so? I think its fine if you find it abhorrent to play a game where you have to kill another human being and see their blood and guts- but that’s definitely not what all games are like.
You really think all games are contrary to libertarian values? That’s speaking from ignorance. At least just say “I find games like modern warfare 2 and others like it contrary to libertarian values”.
I think some of you guys may be over-exaggerating how much “simulation” is actually going on. Yes, they graphics are made to look real, but they don’t - and that is the closest thing you have to realism, a true simulation tries to have as much realism as possible. The games that are popular today are not simulations, they are not made to be realistic, I would say they are not even believed to be realistic but that might be giving some people too much credit. Ultimately I think it would depend on the individual and what that person is getting or trying to get out of the game. Are they trying to imagine themselves in a real war, killing real people? or maybe they are just enjoying a simple game of ‘who has the fastest reaction time’? or maybe they are just enjoying a fictional story that has been made more intriguing because the user has some level of control over it as it plays out?
One thing we should also keep in mind, is that if video games are satisfying some level of “simulated violence”, you would have to seriously consider most games that boys play started when they were very young. For me it would be when me and my brother played ‘pirates’ and ‘cowboys and indians’ - those childhood events would be simulated violence too. I think this goes back to much bigger issues where our society has praised violence so highly and in so many different ways. Violence is the end all be all ultimate win, the ultimate awesomeness, etc. I think this is the core of the problem, or much closer to the core than video games. Violent video games are really just a natural extension to the games that most of us played as boys, the real question is why did we play them? Did we have to be taught to play at violence?
I actually completely lost my taste in violent games and violent movies after I started learning philosophy and specifically about the NAP - BUT had I stopped playing violent games before learning WHY, it would not have mattered at all, it would have been meaningless. The games were not effecting my core belief system, I wanted to play the games because of what my core believe system desired. When new knowledge changed my core beliefs, the desire to play the violent games went away naturally.
Someone said something along the lines of if you play at it enough, you will become like it. I don’t think that really happens with violent games, but they could have other effects on us that are even worse. I have been gaming since I was in grade school at it didn’t turn me into a violent person, it turned me into a techie-geek type person who now makes a living off of technology. I think what may be worse is not how this violence changes are actions, but what effect it has on our beliefs, our philosophy - as a whole society. Media violence (I’m talking about gaming/movies/etc. here) may not make people into violent killers, but I think it does lead them down the path of supporting violent ideologies such as nationalism, statism, etc. This topic really deserves so much more time.
Obviously I can’t- but why did you say this:
"Yes, people who do not want to simulate violence, and do not rationalize and equivocate doing non-libertarian things in VR are the ones out of touch with their emotions. "?
I never said that people who don’t want to simulate violence are out of touch with their emotions. I’m talking about people who don’t want to even enjoy videogames at all and think they’re all the same thing.
I can’t source it obviously, but you weren’t differentiating between super violent games and others so what am I supposed to think?
At the same time, you were putting words in my mouth. I never said that people who don’t want to simulate violence against others are out of touch with their emotions- so why’d you even mention that? I mean if you’re not going to respond to that point I made- then why’d you respond at all? Just for the feeling of “victory” of the debate or something?
If video games are evil because they are violent than so is shakespear, or any book/story/song/movie or any other form of literature which implies violence in any way shape or form.
Games are just another media, an open canvass just like a book of text for relaying information.
It is certainly a powerful argument to claim that simulated child porn is wrong, and so simulated violence must also be wrong, but if we go that route we cannot arbitrarily attack video games alone. There are books, movies, songs which are far worse then most anything you’ll find in the video game market.
I won’t lie, nearly all the fiction books I indulge in have some form of violence or another. I am also a typical guy, I like action based movies that tend to be a bit more violent.
If we took this argument to its logical conclusion in what way would we have to live in order to avoid violence of all types in every facet of our lives. Living in a box sucks! [:)]
No, because you were obviously lying, and I don’t like people lying about my position. You can dislike my position, you can hate me. But don’t lie. If you want to know where I stand, just ask, and I will make it crystal clear to you. Then you can tell me I am wrong. But don’t frame my position in a dishonest manner, and then claim I hold a bad position.
That’s intellectual sloth. I am here. I will answer honest questions from sincere people.
Well when you said this "Yes, people who do not want to simulate violence, and do not rationalize and equivocate doing non-libertarian things in VR are the ones out of touch with their emotions. "? - You were lying about MY position, silly! You don’t have to get so dramatic- I’m all for getting a better understanding of each other’s position. Going off of what you said, you don’t see how I could’ve jumped to the conclusion about your position as I did?