Why don't human beings desire liberty?

Your mirror is distorted by ideology. I know what I said. I do not control what you read into what I’m saying.

If you’re really getting “we need a big government because might makes right” from what I’ve said then there are two possibilities:

A.) I have utterly failed in my attempt to convey a set of ideas to you.

B.) You have utterly failed to take the time to think about the ideas I’ve tried to convey.

I don’t which one of these is true, I’m inclined to think it might be a combination of both.

Why couldn’t they protect themselves? And no–lack of a state is not a valid answer. Further:

Shows that you do believe that rights come from a government, and that Might Makes Right, since the government is mighty and is doling out the rights.

No, it’s not. You just don’t like how you look. You’ve always thought that you looked nice, but now you see the monster you are. Not my problem. Don’t blame me for your self-delusion.

They had no army. No one to protect them.

Rights do not come from the government. But they require protection.

My thoughts don’t matter. What I was saying was that if we’re afraid of Hitler’s and Stalin’s, we should eliminate their power (the state) but if we’re afraid of the street mugger we should learn Jiu Jitsu rather that create a state.

So the question stands: Which people who think might makes right?

Alright, I give up with you, Knight. I’ve tried and failed.

I don’t know, right now Kim Jong Il, Fidel Castro (or his brother or son or whoever is poised to take over there) and Ahmadinejad seem like prime candidates.

An army isn’t necessary for protection.

But they had no state–no rights. So rights must come from a government.

And clearly, rights do not need a government to protect them. So please stop trying to evade the fact that you believe Might Makes Right and just come clean.

Rather, you’ve never tried. You’ve just deluded yourself into believing that Might Makes Right isn’t really Might Makes Right.

O god. Alright, nevermind.

I don’t understand this. Who guarantees anyone’s rights? The state? If the state guarantees rights, then…

And they certainly do. Look at U.S.

You’re a dreamer. This bill will NEVER be overturned. The democratic way is to elect Robin Hood.

The “democratic way” would actually be secession per a state’s populations actions via their legislatures & state governments supposedly representing their state populations, of which more & more people are considering, seeing less & less in common with any administration or federal government supposedly being run to “represent” them.

It’s also constitutional, but we all know how laughable that piece of paper is nowadays thanks to the 20th century.

  1. A quote: “Not man, but a god, must be the measure of all things.” - Plato

If there were a God, there would be no need for government and no question as to the origin of the rights of man. Because there seems to be no God, we have governments. The government is supposed to protect our rights. Rights can only be protected through military force. But, rights can also be taken…or violated by the state. In this case, as the Constitution says, it becomes our obligation to overthrow or simply change the government by electing people who will change it.

  1. You cannot mention modern US in the same breath as Nazi Germany. They’re on totally different levels.

  2. The bill can be overturned. I don’t know if it will be. But I know it can be. Look at what happened in Greece, there was a chance of sovereign default, so the government cut spending. Entitlements are unsustainable, they’ll have to be eliminated sooner or later.

This is also a possibility. I think the South should threaten to secede.

Would any of the goons you named be a threat if they didn’t have the power of a state at their disposal?

Umm, yes I can mention anything I want to. However, you seem to think I implied the U.S. is the same as Nazi Germany, which it is not. I agree with you that two the nations are on totally different levels: Nazi Germany was on Level 10 of the Statism Game and the U.S. is only on Level 7. Agreed, the two nations are on different levels. I contend the goal of every participant in the Statism Game is to achieve Level 10. They do not play in order to stay at Level 1, and they certainly do not intend to quit the game entirely.

If they still had an army, yes. Besides which, the real thing to be said here is that unless you dissolve all states at exactly the same time, there will be a problem.

I would argue the US is closer to a 5. But again, that’s opinion.

My goal in the statism game is to not get to 10. Maybe there aren’t that many of us left though.

  1. Then why play? 2) You say we’re at Level 5: In ten years, will the U.S. be at Level 4 or Level 8?

What difference does it make whether we are at Level 1, Level 5 or Level 7? This is why I choose not to play the game. The Statist Game is absurd (and dangerous to the citizens).

There certainly would be a question, and god would be the government.

Non sequitur.

Only in Utopia.

Nonsense.

No, that’s in the DoI.