Anti-Semitism as a Product of the Ideology of Interventionism

Are you saying that ancient history itself is a Jewish conspiracy?

That’s almost how I’m reading it. A Jewish/Catholic conspiracy, and I don’t think he realizes how overwhelming the evidence is against his claim. Honestly, if that is the case, just choosing how to go about refuting such a claim is in itself overwhelming. His logic and conclusions are so wrong, I honestly wouldn’t know how to go about it.

EDIT: Not that I think any evidence I would show would matter in this case, unless any outside party is actually interested in a refutation, in which case I’ll answer.

Are you saying that ancient history itself is a Jewish conspiracy?

Haha.

What evidence is on your side please? How can you claim ruins in Greece are so many centuries old and not middle aged?

Show me the closet you got to a chain of custody of documents proving it’s ancienty. What’s the oldest document you got, who found it, where, who keep it, how can we verify it, how is it’s linguist compared to others, how is the events described there, can we find there something to independently verified it? (I dare you to verify the astronomical events described in ancient documents, see what you discover).

The proof is on your side, show it clearly what evidence do you have to claim what you claim. No ancient documents survived, there is no chain of custody through the dark ages, it was broken or just never existed. The documents discovered by monks about ancient rome and greece could be either discovered because they were created by them, or survived thousands of years hidden in the woods for them to discovered wandering in the woods…which is more likely? Maybe it doesn’t matter because in school you were told the Scaliger-Petavius version of history and never any alternative of criticism. Any clever reader can just start googling that names and the three I gave, debating with arrogant second-level re-petitioners of court historians is a waste of time, there I agree with Edmund Carlyle. Read some books about chronology and the recent new chronology,

Was china and near east history a fraud too? It acknowledges the Romans and Indian history acknowledges the greeks.

Was Jesus also a 16th ce. Italian? I think I’ve watched a video on this view of history.

I say “ancient” history is neither ancient nor history, it’s a pack of lies written in the XVI, famous greek and latins lived then, in the middle ages and were moved back to a ghost ancient history that never existed. History is much shorter than they say and religions more recent creations to justify political rule,

This is almost as good as ‘nuclear weapons are a hoax’, possibly a Jewish one.

Player makes Alex Jones look credible.

You’re better know after your ad-hominems and try to derail the conversation and discredit?

Can you answer me with a chain of custody to prove the old date of your mythological/religion version of history you were told without proof and now try to defend. Do it, defend it. Please.

I’m not trying to ‘discredit’ you, and I’m not going to argue with you. I just find you hilarious.

I alredy explain it once, I’ve done my moral duty of saying you are being lied to.

I spent my time researching, learning and verifying, not here in kids discussions.

Was china and near east history a fraud too?

With all those Semites running around in the near east who knows (PS: I guess the Greeks are Semites too?). And those Iranians aren’t really Aryans. As for the Chinese…well it’s a secret.

It’s the world vs the real, true Aryans.

Grow up.

We have papyrus and vellum documents from the height of the Roman Empire. Either the conspirators were able to get hold of 1500 year old reeds and goat-skins, or the modern scholars are in on the conspiracy! Not to mention the vast ruins they had to create all across the Mediterranean and bury beneath the ground, and all the artifacts they had to spread all across Eurasia. They must have been masters of different (fabricated?) dialects of Greek and place them within their desired chronology without any errors - likewise for the evolution of Latin. Truly they must have been the most amazing people to have ever existed, authoring the works of Homer, Hesiod, Sophocles, Aristophanes, Plato, Aristotle, Cicero, Horace, Virgil, Ovid, Tacitus and many others - all the more astounding due to the diversity of content, style, and language.

If this is true, it is far more impressive than the traditional account which states that classical antiquity achieved these feats over a millenium and without a unifying order. These men were able to create a whole world and populate it with seemingly real people: orators, philosophers, poets, playwrights, as well as an extensive historical narrative - and this done all within a century.

I want to know in which century Pompeii was secretively constructed and then buried under ash

I want to know in which century Pompeii was secretively constructed and then buried under ash

Probably occurred in 1857.

“We have papyrus and vellum documents from the height of the Roman Empire”

Which one, and how do you know for certain they are dated to that time, how?

“Either the conspirators were able to get hold of 1500 year old reeds and goat-skins,”

There are not 1500 years of written history, only centuries, there was almost nothing in the dark ages, and what is told to be from ancient rome or ancient greek is just medieval greek. The documents were discovered in the middle ages, if you believe their claim they discovered something from a hell of a lot of centuries old, it’s up to you and your sanity, the most logic, reasonable and scientific conclusion is that they made them at that time, the middle ages, and with time and power that version of history was solidified and organized in the times of Scaliger-Petavius who organized everything at that time and created a magic line of thousands of years, they spread history, put current poems, and war reports as ancient wars, created copies of empires into old times, part of it voluntary and part by bad translations, misinterpretations, the non tradition of keeping unified time, the poor expensive documents, pseudo-clocks, pseudo-datings, it was very hard, they tried to fill the gaps of what they did not understand. You have to research it, I’m not going to tell you, you won’t believe me, in a forum the trust is very low, if you had a book on your hands it would be different, if you start researching know for example google-books-fomenko and start with the first two volumes that would be time better spent.

“modern scholars are in on the conspiracy”

They are no modern scholars, there are lazy school trained cowards who as journalists and economist don’t question anything, but there are several historians in many countries conducting similar lines of research, if you never heard of them is your problem, and a symbol of how you have not researched what they feed you in school.

“Not to mention the vast ruins they had to create all across the Mediterranea”

Logical fallacy, that doesn’t mean the ruins are from an empire of such time based on such capital, they don’t have a logo made in china in that date, they are ruins, you have to analyze them, check the town records and what people say about that place, and try to verify it independently, by visitors, maps, descriptions of travelers, etc…

There are photos of the Greek Parthenon with medieval towers, they clean it up, leave it beauty and shiny and start getting money by showing it to tourists.

" They must have been masters of different (fabricated?) dialects of Greek and place them within their desired chronology without any errors"

They just speak Greece and Latin, yes, in the middle ages. And there are books of errors, magical Rome has 500 years of different founding dates, and most modern books of the Roman Classics are always “correcting” and “interpreting” them, saying they really mean that and not this.

“authoring the works of Homer, Hesiod, Sophocles, Aristophanes, Plato, Aristotle, Cicero, Horace, Virgil, Ovid, Tacitus”

Works that were created in the middle ages, they just said they were older, there was a real Plato, but in the middle age Italy, he created an academy and works exactly like Plato, but he was called Pletinus, modern historian say he was a neo-Platonist, that he magically recovered or was influenced by his works and decided to copy it entirely and devote his life to be an exact copy of him. Or maybe he was the real Plato and a phantom Plato send to a history that only exist in the minds of the Scaliger-Petavius chronologist. Many of this wars were real, just in the middle ages, and a copy of it, the most famous people learn, the only one, in ancient times, nobody ever reads about Middle Ages Greece or Rome, if they did, they would scream to heaven by the many ironic curiosities they would find.

“all the more astounding due to the diversity of content, style, and language”

Astronomers have been trying to calculate the triad of eclipses described in the greece wars, the only triad of eclipses so grealty narrated… are from the XI and XII centuries, either astronomy is wrong or the event narrated there are more recent, the XII century and someone said they are older. Choose. I can give you the exact dates, book pages and you can get the classic narration, a simple astronomical program and introduce the data. If I’m right you will be forced to send to hell all the narration of ancient writers because they are fictitious in what they narrate or they just narrate what they saw and someone manipulated them and say there were not tales of that war but an older one.

Ok, Thucydides described three eclipses in his narration of the Pheloponnesus War, a full solar eclipse in midday summer, 7 years later beggining summer another non-full solar eclipse, and 11 years later ending summer a lunar one. Many astronomers have tried it, from Kepler to our time, no one can, because that book was written in the XII century, in the XVI the version of ancient Rome and Greece (and Egypt) was taking shape and by the XVII it was everywhere. Still wise people knew it or discovered it, like Newton, some historian like the one in charge of the French Royal Library , Jean Hardouin, some Germans, like Robert Baldauf, British, like Edwin Johnson, Krekshin, secretary of Peter the Great. Of course you never heard about them of their works, because they were censored or keep quiet.

We have papyrus and vellum documents from the height of the Roman Empire

The issue with trying to debate him here is he is going to bring up “new chronology”, which is jargon for “a chronology that asserts which ever view of history I wish to make up”. He will have something that “refutes” what ever you want to bring up (ex: carbon dating, biology, etc) because that is how ad hoc positions work. Honestly it is a lost cause. It is the same mentality a 9/11 truther, lizardmen, creationist, etc will have; if they are forced into a position where you have to say the earth is flat they will spam you with info and zeal to show the earth is flat.

I am not going to actually get into any explanation as to why he is wrong in a very dramatic and colossal way on almost every assertion, as it is too much work and time; but once again if there is any third party who has a specific question, I will answer it.

The issue with trying to debate him here is he is going to bring up “new chronology”, which is jargon for “a chronology that asserts which ever view of history I wish to make up”. He will have something that “refutes” what ever you want to bring up (ex: carbon dating, biology, etc) because that is how ad hoc positions work. Honestly it is a lost cause.

This conversation is totally bizarre. I’m all for historical revisionism, but pretending that a totally decentralized society could somehow come under the sway of a unitary conspiracy to fake thousands of years of human history is pretty strange. There are lots of lies about the past, all of it, but asserting that the Hittite Empire did not exist is Twilight Zone stuff.

Also, for the record: say what you will about historians of modern history, ancient historians/archeologists simply aren’t really that politically motivated. And if you actually read academic writings, it is impossible to see how they could be considered “lazy with evidence”. While there is indeed much to learn and an always changing view of more ancient history, the field has made remarkable strides and advances.

I see, we got someone abandon politely and another hiding the fact the church rule it all at that time, had military religious order in fortified castles everywhere, dozens of religous orders like jesuits, countries dying for God and the Vatican, the ability to burn anybody, to burn any book, to launch crusades, to destroy anybody just saying heretic, but there was no centralized power to do that right. Where the hell do you think our current date 2010 after Christ comes from? A secular one?

“how do you know for certain they are dated to that time, how?”

Radiocarbon dating, earth level. Not all texts are from medieval copyists - many come directly from ancient sites (see oxyrhynchus, and longer inscriptions).

“There are not 1500 years of written history, only centuries, there was almost nothing in the dark ages, and what is told to be from ancient rome or ancient greek is just medieval greek.”

The Greek used in medieval documents is greatly different to various usages of Ancient Greek (e.g. Homeric, Attic, Doric, Koine etc.). They are not the same, and if your fabrication theory is true, the medieval Greeks must have created whole new dialects and used them in such a way that a chronology of their evolution could be placed on them. They must have done this not only with documents, but with inscriptions and coins, and buried the latter two beneath the earth across Eurasia. You are also greatly in error in saying there was nothing in the “dark ages” - even the early Renaissance scholars were well aware of the vast literature of the early medieval writers - they disliked their content and their use of Latin, but they never denied a continuous record of scholarship even after the fall of Rome. As with Greek, Latin changed greatly over time - the Latin of Plautus is very different to that of Cicero, though they are separated in time by less than 200 years.

“If I’m right you will be forced to send to hell all the narration of ancient writers because they are fictitious in what they narrate or they just narrate what they saw and someone manipulated them and say there were not tales of that war but an older one.”

This statement shows just how little you know of classical scholarship. NOBODY, not even ancient writers, claims that ancient historians etc. are reliable! Most of their eveidence is based on hearsay and even when they are eyewitnesses to events they are working from their perception and their memory. Everybody recognises much of what ancient authorities say is fictitious, but this does notthat mean a conspiracy - merely that they had very few channels of correct information, and they filled in the rest from what they thought made sense. You need to look no further than today’s media to see how easily this can happen.

Overall you sound like you have no understanding of history and have read one poor conspiracy work and accepted its conclusions without question. Do some proper research and find the truth.