The Holocaust--what would the best way of stopping it have been from an Austrian perspective?

Miscellaneous History
41

Thanks for bringing to the thread how Churchill had decoded Germany messages and refuses to use it to protect it’s civilians.

Such a great statesman, traitor, destroyer of the British Empire, of British Cities, it was a fact that had Churchill not started firebombing german cities Hitler would not have bombed Britain cities either. And when he got it and could stopped it, he didn’t. He wanted sacrifices so the anger and hate would grow.

He lust for war so much they were afraid of him, he wrote his fiancee he wondered where his lust for destruction and war came from. He was soon in business with those who were to get rich through the war at the expenses of millions of innocents.

He really fit in the photos side by side with Stalin.

42

nirgrahamUK

Facts are clear, it was all lies (Allies=All-lies)

This is likely the height of your scholarship

Why are you acting like this? Do you have an agenda? Do you have to go fast against those who dare criticize a sacred dogma with facts?

Are you afraid people might research and find the Holocaust is war-propaganda? Their nationalism will fade and their grand-fathers died for nothing, or worse, fighting the wrong side? I agree it’s hard, but we have to be courageous and accept the truth, even when it hurts. You may already have accepted the American civil war was not to free the slaves, the world war was not a good war, and the allies were not the good side, the allies included Stalin for God sake! You sided with Stalin! You faked Pearl Harbor, the Lusitania, you started terror bombings, you manipulated everything! Katyn graves were discovered, show to international reporters and diplomats, and the West Press dared to print the genocide was committed by the Nazis, when it was clear it were the soviets on soviet-controlled Poland. You didn’t have a government or a free press, it was the Jews against those who dare to not be controlled by them, as easy as that. It’s you choice to accept the reality or run to forget this words by calling my the typical words. Just check out, cui bono, who benefits, who controls what today, which group controls what, check out events like USS Liberty, Polansky, or the current Wars destroying the US to benefit Israel.

Why is it the jews are the only country living of the three most richest nations, the taxes of Germany, US and blackmailed Switzerland.

Why are all central banks controlled by jews, created by jews and planned by them through revolutions (British, French the most evident ones) ?

Why are they the only group who insults those who criticize them? Why are they able to pass laws in Europe destroying Free Speech only if the attacked are they?

Why all evidence against them is called "antisemitism’ and so the people are afraid of looking it and being labeled and marginalized?

And now back to the question; what would the best way of stopping the Holocaust from an Austrian perspective?

I believe it would be better to ask the way to save not only the jews, but all who died in the War right? With respect, you seem racist by giving more value to the lives of jews than to Russians or Ukrainians (you know, the 5 million who really were starved to death).

So, how could we stop Wars… hmm… if wars are state acts I humble suggest to see who controls the states and who benefits in the wars. Do you agree with this assessment?

43

“This is likely the height of your scholarship”

He brings about some good points. I’m interested in this now…DD5, give him facts…ignoring him and saying, its a waste of time is a cop out.

Bert and this other person are trying to present facts…at least, that’s what it seems like. This is very interesting.

44

All I’m saying is that if if we want to stop the state, it would be useful to detect in history who pushed for bigger, controlling all-powerful states and who benefits most from them. I don’t want to hate or go against anybody,

I just point out a evident fact, taxes and regulations were lower in time of Christianity and monarchy. Centralized fiat money and all-powerful states with total war appear during and after revolutions instigated and financed by jews. A group that for whatever reasons our ancestors banned and control careful, they know and warn us they use to infiltrate and escalate to control governments, media, corporations and achieve total control. I believe they press for the state and taking that into account will help the cause of freedom. Had the French been more careful and less naive when they were warned, lots of lives could have been saved, the same in the British revolution, the Russian, the Spanish civil War and many more. If you want to avoid a final one world tyranny you should not only look at the state, but at those who instigate it, gain from it, and use it. It won’t be easy, this is real, there is a conspiracy to suppress and not allow books to come into print. And in information warfare infiltration is used to damage the reputation of the enemy, and it works, many high ranking military advised the British Government they were being pushed, maneuvered by a group of bankers and other powerful people mostly jewish into a war not useful or necessary for Britain, The same in America, and they were arrested for being “pro-german”.

This is not a call for antisemitism or anything bad, the worse I could suggest is to not allow Jews into government and divest more intelligence, police and judicial resources into people who work together for their common goal using nations in which they live to advance their own agenda. And it’s not me, many many people have been warning for centuries. Any decent regular jew would accept that, that some rich guys of their same religion work together and manipulate whole countries, given that I don’t see a big problem in not allowing double-nationals with a loyalty to another country control our lives, or to warn people of past historical plots so they are watching to prevent the next one.

In fact, jews should be the most anti-jewish group of all, to check where their hate comes from and if they have enemies using them inside!.

Their high-ranking are using them, scarifying them for their goals, it’s a fact they accepted the sacrifice of hundred of thousands of jews being rounded up in Germany if with that they could win Palestine, they sacrifice their people, they are traitor, high ranking rabbis and jews are a shame for the real pacific jews.

45

You are going about this in reverse. There is ample evidence that the Holocaust has existed for you to dwell into. But the evidence itself is for you to examine and not for me to do that work for you, nor is it practical. However, I can expose the fallacious and disingenous method employed by most critics.

He [Bert] is providing arguments that attempt to discredit the claims by employing the same ‘clever’ tactics that are often used to discredit other well known theories. The method has 2 main components:

  1. Ignore most of the evidence and attack only very carefully selected pieces of evidence.

  2. Engage in logical fallacies to build your case.

The method is very effective because (1) most people are not scholars on the topic and are not familiar with the scope of the evidence and (2) most people are not trained to logically sound critical thinking.

For example, (and I’m not specifically responding to the claims on the films):

Claim to be discredited: Jews murdered by gas

  1. Find some source A that makes a claim about Gas chamber in camp X, that turns out to be unreliable or false.

  2. On the basis of (1) ignore all other evidence and infer the conclusion (usually only implied) that Jews were not murdered by Gas.

But of course, all you did is [maybe] discredit source A. Not other sources, which in this case can be and endless pile of personal accounts by witnesses.

46

Have you read Martin Gilbert’s “The Holocaust”? Someone who has done so much research must surely have come across this piece of work which contains several hundred eyewitness accounts, not to mention testemonies of Nazis and German soldiers. That along with thousands of Nazi documents and blueprints. The evidence is there - you are obviously not looking for it.

47

You are right, let’s start from the beginning, those who controls the government and the media said;

1-Germans eats babies alive!

2-Convert jews into soap!

3-Murdered thousands of surrendered polish officers (katyn massacre)

4-Murdered thousands in air bombings

5-Murdered 6 million in gas chambers

So, 1, 2 3 were proven lies, in fact, lie number 3 was committed by the allies (soviets) and when discovered, blamed on Germans!

Lie 4 is even better, the allied started the firebombing of cities, reaching it’s max murdering 300.000 in Dresden.

In fact, the Germans refused to do the same for months. Holy, what if we discovered the more humane in the war were the Germans! (Bonus tip, check how many wars were Britain and Germany in that last century for example, the results will be astonishing I promise).

Germany could have gassed Britain, could have won the war at Dunkirk, but offered a honorable peace by allowing their armies to escape. Who is the war-mongering country then? The one who declared war and start firebombing cities or the one who allows the enemy to escape to win a honorable lasting peace? Hmm

And the big lie, number 5, during the war there was no report of extermination camps in Germany, Red Cross was inspecting the detention/labor camps. In the 7.000 pages of diaries of the allied leaders there is no mention of extermination or holocaust or anything like that. Only in the "press’ who is “reporting” bay-eating germans. During the last two years the communications and infrastructure of Germany is destroyed, the civilians who are lucky to not being burned alive by allied bombing starve to death, curiously those in camps starve too, who would have though about that! Giving orders to bomb the communications of a country could lead to mass starvation? Who would be so evil to order that, maybe the same man who started the bloodbath, was offered to stop it and refused and sacrificed the population it hadn’t illegally detained yet? WW Genocide Engineer Churchill.

So, all we got are starving prisoners in a starving bombed country, and the tortured “confessions” of official who were going to be sentenced by the winners in the most hypocrite circus-trial ever imagined. Oh, I forgot the two best cards, they win the war, starve the losers to death for several years, after using them as slave labor for some years too and then keep their invading army occupying their country, still there! 65 years later! And keep the sadistic soviet (jew-controlled) army occupying half their country and scaring the other half so they play good-cop bad-cop with the US/Soviet. And the final card, we control their governments! And we put them in prison if they speak the truth out! You know, the Western Jew-lead World, were historians who dare speak out share jail cells with rapist! Be proud we “liberate” you Europe!

48

But the question to you is this: Do you deny that millions of Jews were murdered? Or do you just have a problem with the gas?

I am confused what your argument is. That gas chambers were used to kill millions of Jews, or that the Holocaust is a hoax?

My argument is based on whether 6 million Jews were exterminated by the use of gas chambers. The logical fallacies that I’m pointing out are:

  1. Not just Jews were held in labor camps. Even if 6 million were exterminated, there’s no way that entire number is of Jews. For some reason the Jews get a special treatment in this category.
  2. The 6 million number has fluctuated throughout the years. After the war it was as high as 20 million, as if the entire Jewish population of Europe was exterminated. (There needs to be attention given to the amount of Jews who moved to neighboring countries, this is discussed in Did Six Million Really Die?)
  3. Even if 6 million died (Jews plus other prisoners such as communist, homosexuals, Pols, Ukranians, etc) there’s no way 6 million died due to gas chambers.
  4. In the videos posted they talk about crematories. With the technology they had there is no way to even cremate more than 184 bodies a day, and it can take 2 hours to cremate a body (according to the interview done with someone in that specific field in 1988). Even if they were cremating and not gasing bodies, it’s almost impossible to exterminate an amount that large.
  5. There was evidence from those who survived the Holocaust who said there was a smell from the crematories, and there is none. You won’t smell burning bodies in the crematories.
  6. The places that are considered gas chambers cannot due so to even a small or large amount of people. In those videos David Cole goes to Auschwitz and discusses the gas chambers (compared to delousing stations) and with his evidence there’s no way anyone was gased, or that gas was used to exterminate anyone.

My stance is that gas chambers were not used in the execution of Jews or others during WWII in Nazi Germany. Since the entire Holocaust rest on the argument that 6 million Jews were killed in a mass genocide, pulling this from under the Holocaust argument debunks the Holocaust argument and shows it to either just a big conspiracy, a hoax, or A LOT evidence that was misinterpreted.

He [Bert] is providing arguments that attempt to discredit the claims by employing the same ‘clever’ tactics that are often used to discredit other well known theories. The method has 2 main components:

  1. Ignore most of the evidence and attack only very carefully selected pieces of evidence.

  2. Engage in logical fallacies to build your case.

The method is very effective because (1) most people are not scholars on the topic and are not familiar with the scope of the evidence and (2) most people are not trained to logically sound critical thinking.

Attack only very carefully selected pieces? Like whether or not gas chambers existed which is the staple point of the Holocaust? Engage in logical fallacies? Like what?

Eye witness accounts? How about David Cole going to the concentration camps and actually documenting what he saw and discussing it. Here’s David Cole’s 46 unanswered questions regarding Nazi gas chambers.

49

DD5, either you can address Player and I’s arguments that we have presented (and thanks to Player for presenting a more full written argument), or you can stop responding with statments that do not address what we are talking about.

50

Eyewitness of an event that is physically impossible are called liars, tergiversed, manipulated, bought or tortured or faked.

It has even been proven in court that no gas chamber existed, the closest thing to that are shower room that if used to gas would leak the gas and kill everybody including the guards nearby, there are no mass-graves. Please explain, if there are so many many eyewitness and testimonies and documents of mass killings, where the hell are the bodies? Hmm.. maybe the eyewitness and testimonies and documents can be fabricated and “convinced” to declare and the physical proof of bodies can not be faked or fabricated. But that doesn’t matter, they control the education, the media, all the children will and are learning the 6 million figure, and no historian or researcher with opposing views will ever appear on TV or in the papers. So only a few will find the truth by accident and when he speaks auto-censoring of people will enter and call him anti-semite.

(Technically the allies can call the buddy-buddy Stalin for some millions of corpses in the Europe they “rescued” by giving it entirely to him, oh, such a great liberating war, we liberate limited constitutional monarchies and gave them to the soviet monster machine, such a great war!)

Isn’t it ironic in a libertarian forum to talk about how state subsidies make people fake the necessary conditions to get the subsidies?

Here you got it, there are today “holocaust” “survivors” receiving benefits… who never set foot on Germany, who spend their whole life in Argentina!

Thanks to the german, american and swiss taxpayers! Meanwhile millions live in poverty and extreme conditions in Siberia. But they don’t matter, they are not jews, they are Christians, they will never live in sunny beachy Israel with high-tech german and american technology for free, with eternal subsidies! I hope one day they will be ashamed of them, I wish this fakers could one day go to Siberia and see a poor bearded man living in hellish conditions just taking it, while he fakes and lies his “stories” out of sheep societal union to their jewish corporation (it’s a mafia like organization atop, disguising and using a religion and his follower as tools).

And to be clear, so they don’t go ad-hominem on me, I feel empathy and sadness to the majority of jews, who are unaware of how they were and are being used, sacrificed and have terrible people faking to share their religion.

Edit: Isn’t it ironic that Christians will acknowledge their bads, and recognize them, like Inquisition, going after Astronomers, Crusades, bad apples in molesting cases… most accept it… but most jews and of course the leading ones refuse to accept people of their faith instigated revolutions to take control of countries and install central banking/debt based economies and fractional reserve legal protection for their plunder. Curios..Oh I know why, they are still at it!

51

I didn’t start this thread, but if you want to end the FED and go back to silver/gold standard you should see who created the FED in the first place, who passed it as law, who paid who for a revolution in England to create a central bank, who orchestrated the french revolution, the russian revolution.

There is a reason usury (which really means fractional reserve as dishonest practice) is associated with jews, because they impose it! Check Greenspan, Bernanke, he didn’t get a job because of his great understanding of economic cycles (obviously), but because of family/friendship with the ruling ones. He doesn’t have to be clever, just take orders willingly or through blackmail (as did Bush who was pushed by the 11S masterminds, check KGB Dimitri Khalekov for details).

Whatever you believe me or not, just don’t start in the middle of the game, don’t start only at the creation of the FED, why were mostly all americans against it, never allowing for generations, and suddenly it was passed, it doesn’t make sense, even the worst, Lincoln, was opposed to it, americans as such would not have passed the FED, and they didn’t, jews infiltrated into the government or blackmailing it did, as they did previously in Europe.

Mises Institute fights for Austrian Economics and honest money, well, there is another very organized side fighting to implement and control central banking. Seeing the gun is good, seeing who’s pointing it at you is even better. Austrian Economics explains the “how”, history explains the “who”.
Of course, apply the same, you don’t expect to understand real economics in government faculties, don’t expect to learn history either! We know freedom has to be defended and fight for, truth too! Let’s never forget that.

52

Please look up what a logical fallacy is.

53

Source.

Source!

Sooource!

Im very interesting in this topic. What you say jives with what i’ve researched on my own. Eventually this will culminate in a public debate between myself and some lefty… so cheers :smiley:

54

There is a reason usury (which really means fractional reserve as dishonest practice) is associated with jews

superb crankish trollery of the highest order.

55

It’s really hard to understand how anybody can believe the holocaust myth when you google “ernst zundel trial” and the second result is

“Ernst Zündel is one of those who have been prosecuted for claiming or attempting to prove that less than six million Jews were slaughtered by the Nazis”

I could rest my case. Right now, and win.

Evidence, proof to be valid has to be available for both sides, here looking at the evidence gets you in jail. This is the most laudly way of screaming to heavens that there is no proof whatsoever!

56

Just because some shitty administrations ban free speech does not mean the speech that they ban is true. Is it too obvious to mention that the speech is not banned elsewhere and therefore…

57

Or maybe not everybody is expert in economics and they simplify things as best they can and criticize what they know to be unlawful, unjust, unethical in the word usury. If you read non-economist who research banking many criticize gold when in reality they later clearly criticize a 10% fractional reserve, you can not expect technical jargon always. Usury is not taking interest, is taking interest fraudulently, dishonestly, that’s why it was criticized.

58

less anger at zog and clearer writing would help here

59

Perhaps the Holocaust deniers here ought to look up the Mel Mermelstein case.

60

That isn’t even the current mainstream position. The latest research claims that just over 5 million Jews were killed in the holocaust and that most of them were starved and shot, not gassed. For current mainstream research on the topic check out Bloodlands by Timothy Snyder, a historian at Yale University.