The Holocaust--what would the best way of stopping it have been from an Austrian perspective?

This is crazy. Millions of people die in a stupid war nobody wanted. It was engineered, made happen and later justified by whatever was need to sell the madness it caused, it was justified later as a necessary sacrifice to save millions from genocide. That’s it, it’s war propaganda. War propaganda with real consequences and used to kidnap innocent and courageous men who speak out about the madness of war and were labeled pro-germans, pro-nazi and jailed.

The Jews laugh in private at the Holocaust Story, it’s a scam, we live in a world of lies, deceit, greed and violence. Sorry to inform you but there are evil dishonest people out there who play with our emotions and empathy feelings.

We are still talking about a non-event which distracts us from digging into the real events, how the war happened, how it was sold, who wanted war, why, what were the results of it, what were the social/economical/legal/moral differences before and after. Cui bono. Who got bonds of which countries, who financed who, who warned us, who was later proven to be right, who was silenced because he was right. And what happened before that war. It’s unjust and unfair if all everybody knows of jews is the Holocaust, it’s astute, people don’t start at the beginning, they were hated in every country they were, banned, several times, came after the military winner of a revolution allowed them to come back, they set up central banks, they got countries into massive debts, which they control, controlling the debt they control the government, and controlling the money they control it all, all that is available for sale, that’s the reason of the moral changes in society in the last centuries. They control the money, now they want money to control everything, they have been and are attacking all that stands opposite to consumerism. materialism, hedonism. That’s why wars were prepared to attack monarchies and religion and family values are under attack.

It’s time to stop being naive and accept that war is not only in the front but in ideas and in our minds. We are the target of the war propaganda campaign, most important than bullets or industrial capacity is a gullible public who support a war. A few books on the subject.

"THE NAMELESS WAR

Captain Archibald Maule Ramsay was educated at Eton and the Royal Military College, Sandhurst, and served with the 2nd Battalion Coldstream Guards in the First World War until he was severely wounded in 1916 - thereafter at Regimental H.Q. and the War Office and the British War Mission in Paris until the end of the war.

From 1920 he became a Member of H.M. Scottish Bodyguard. In 1931 he was elected a Member of Parliament for Midlothian and Peeblesshire.

Arrested under Regulation 18b on the 23rd May, 1940, he was detained, without charge or trial, in a cell in Brixton Prison until the 26th September, 1944. On the following morning he resumed his seat in the House of Commons and remained there until the end of that Parliament in 1945).

Here is the story that people have said would never be written in our time – the true history of events leading up to the Second World War, told by one who enjoyed the friendship and confidence of Mr. Neville Chamberlain during the critical months between Munich and September, 1939.

There has long been an unofficial ban on books dealing with what Captain Ramsay calls “The Nameless War”, the conflict which has been waged from behind the political scene for centuries, which is still being waged and of which very few are aware. "


Problems at Treblinka

A detailed forensic examination of the site of the wartime Treblinka camp, using sophisticated electronic ground radar, has found no evidence of mass graves there.

For six days in October 1999, an Australian team headed by Richard Krege, a qualified electronics engineer, carried out an examination of the soil at the site of the former Treblinka II camp in Poland, where, Holocaust historians say, more than half a million Jews were put to death in gas chambers and then buried in mass graves.

According to the Encyclopedia of the Holocaust (1997), for example, “a total of 870,000 people” were killed and buried at Treblinka between July 1942 and April 1943. Then, between April and July 1943, the hundreds of thousands of corpses were allegedly dug up and burned in batches of 2,000 or 2,500 on large grids made of railway ties.

Krege’s team used an $80,000 Ground Penetration Radar (GPR) device, which sends out vertical radar signals that are visible on a computer monitor. GPR detects any large-scale disturbances in the soil structure to a normal effective depth of four or five meters, and sometimes up to ten meters. (GPR devices are routinely used around the world by geologists, archaeologists, and police.) In its Treblinka investigation, Krege’s team also carried out visual soil inspections, and used an auger to take numerous soil core samples.

The team carefully examined the entire Treblinka II site, especially the alleged “mass graves” portion, and carried out control examinations of the surrounding area. They found no soil disturbance consistent with the burial of hundreds of thousands of bodies, or even evidence that the ground had ever been disturbed. In addition, Krege and his team found no evidence of individual graves, bone remains, human ashes, or wood ashes.

“From these scans we could clearly identify the largely undisturbed horizontal stratigraphic layering, better known as horizons, of the soil under the camp site,” says the 30-year old Krege, who lives in Canberra. “We know from scans of grave sites, and other sites with known soil disturbances, such as quarries, when this natural layering is massively disrupted or missing altogether.” Because normal geological processes are very slow acting, disruption of the soil structure would have been detectable even after 60 years, Krege noted.

While his initial investigation suggests that there were never any mass graves at the Treblinka camp site, Krege believes that further work is still called for.

“Historians say that the bodies were exhumed and cremated toward the end of the Treblinka camp’s use in 1943, but we found no indication that any mass graves ever existed,” he says. “Personally, I don’t think there was a mass extermination camp there at all.”

Of course if you look you will find many more stories like this, we are talking about a sacred dogma, a religion almost, they will never accept officially that they lied and fabricated the holocaust, it doesn’t matter how many holocaust surviving jews confess, you may find hundreds, thousands, you will find evidence everywhere if you look. This is an all out war, they gamble it all with this one, the holocaust, the effects of the world discovering it was a lie would be tremendous, they will and have forced governments to silence those who discover and prove to much. If this path is open, they won’t have a protection anymore and their role in history, wars and revolution will be looked massively. The results won’t be pretty, but we will discover why the human race can’t live in peace.

A few books

http://www.amazon.com/Pawns-Game-William-Guy-Carr/

http://www.amazon.com/nameless-war-H-Ramsay/dp/0851720684

Many of them are freely available on the Internet

http://www.questia.com/read/491355

And if the current mainstream position don’t support gas anymore, what happens with all the "documents, eyewitness and testimonies’ ? This is one of the worst scams ever.

“There is a reason usury (which really means fractional reserve as dishonest practice) is associated with jews, because they impose it!”

lets not stereotype a whole group. i like all the info you are presenting, but don’t set yourself up by doing this.

its a group of criminals…even if they all happen to be jewish (which I’m not saying they are) its still just a group of criminals…

there are still plenty of freedom loving libertarian jews that do not want to be stereotyped like this…

“superb crankish trollery of the highest order.”

he’s angry…as we all are…with criminal government…

his anger led him to a foolish stereotype mistake…

he will learn from this mistake…

do not ban him though…he is providing very interesting info here…

“The Jews laugh in private at the Holocaust Story”

replace the word jews with a criminal group of jews…or something…

its a small criminal group…

there are jews who are freedom loving and who see government for what it is; evil…plain and simple…they would be offended by being lumped in with this criminal group of jews you speak of…

Aye. Even if you won’t be banned for your behaviour, which I think you won’t, people will be more receptive to you if you calm down. I’m glad you’re here because you’re well read. Stick around and make a difference.

That isn’t even the current mainstream position. The latest research claims that just over 5 million Jews were killed in the holocaust and that most of them were starved and shot, not gassed. For current mainstream research on the topic check out Bloodlands by Timothy Snyder, a historian at Yale University.

I believe the current official number is 5.2 million to be exact. It won’t be long before the entire thing just breaks down on what really happened.

The evils of governments, including the atrocities committed by the Aryan Nationalists of Nazi Germany are the fault of a small criminal group of Jews. I’m sure Jews would greatly appreciate that correction by you. I suppose your support for limited government is also the fault of some small criminal gang of Jews.

This is the crux of his 'argument":

Jews have proportionally high presense in banking (only true in some places by the way), so the evil banks must the creation of Jews!

Indians practically own all the convenient stores here in the US, so thank God for those Indians!

Is this what passes by as intellectual thought nowadays around here?

DD5, you still not have provided a rebuttal to anything in this argument. Thus far, you still have not provided anything with substance.

“The evils of governments, including the atrocities committed by the Aryan Nationalists of Nazi Germany are the fault of a small criminal group of Jews.”

what in the world are you trying to do here? i said to him to stop stereotyping…

I said in my earlier post…even if you believe they are all jews (WHICH I’M NOT SAYING THEY ARE)…you should say…small group of criminals…and not stereotype by saying jews…

if he believes they are all jews…then he should say…small group of criminal jews…not jews…

either way…he made a tiny mistake…its called stereotyping…its not a big deal…he made some good points and very interesting posts…

you didn’t seem to have anything at all in response…the best you had was saying…“its s waste of time” to argue with him…

now, you seem to be trying to turn his stereotype mistake into the entire debate…

its not even part of the debate…move on…

matter fact…respond to the points he’s making…because I’m interested in this…

What started as revisionism, quickly turned into a complete denial, and finally into the same old typical anti-semitic stupidity that dates back to the middle ages.

NO thanks.

“What started as revisionism, quickly turned into a complete denial, and finally into the same old typical anti-semitic stupidity that dates back to the middle ages.”

I understand you are angry…

but there are some pretty dang good questions that are being raised…and they really need some anwsers…

don’t ignore the questions…they are not going away…

its like jesse jackson debating a libertarian by answering everything with “you’re a racist”…

its ridiculous and we need to move past that…

limitgov,

If you’re interested in this topic, go do your own work.

I am not going to do the dirty work for you. I have a life and debating an anti-Semitic bigot is not on my todo list .

Yeah, those damn liberty hating Jews like Frank Chodorov, Ayn Rand, Milton Friedman, David Friedman, Ludwig von Mises, Murray Rothbard, and Robert Nozick are always cranking out more propaganda to keep the common man’s neck under the sovereign’s boot. Oh wait…

As much as I rather not get into this topic, the Jews he speaks of are the Zionist, and racialist Jews. The funny thing is Zionism is a mirror image of National Socialism.

Solid,

You forgot Walter Block and Israel Kirzner. But I’m also not ready to acknowledge that all those many many more misguided progressive socialist Jews are laughing either.

No, it’s not. That’s a logical fallacy. Not all nationalism is national socialism.

I’m not saying opinions anymore, only facts, documents you can read online or get in a bookstore. Make you own conclusions. The importance of the subject I’m sure will deserve you give this a chance.

How many here have read Gruesome Harvest by Ralph Franklin Keeling or Crimes and Mercies: The Fate of German Civilians under Allied Occupation, 1944-1950 or Other Losses by James Bacque?

I will quote;

The first edition of this controversial book caused an international scandal by claiming that almost one million German prisoners of war had died of starvation in American and French death camps after World War II. In 1992, Bacque visited the newly-opened KGB archives where he discovered more evidence to support his claim. This revised edition of Other Losses presents all the relevant new material on the deaths plus new evidence of the suppression of truth by Western academics, press, and governments.

Referring to his first previous book;

For Germany, the end of World War II occurred officially on 8th May 1945; but the end of suffering did not. Using recently released documents from the USA and detailed research in the Moscow archives, the author shows how millions of Germans died unnecessarily - from starvation, disease and forced homelessness. The Red Army in the east took revenge for the crimes of the Nazis, as did the French and Americans in the west. The governments responsible have never acknowledged any mass deaths. Bacque argues that the Allies came not as liberators and rescuers, but as judges and avengers.

(And another about my friend the “hero” Churchill)

Churchill’s Secret War: The British Empire and the Ravaging of India during World War II by Madhusree Mukerjee

After the Reich: The Brutal History of the Allied Occupation by Giles MacDonogh

“When Hitler’s government collapsed in 1945, Germany was immediately divided up under the control of the Allied Powers and the Soviets. A nation in tatters, in many places literally flattened by bombs, was suddenly subjected to brutal occupation by vengeful victors. According to recent estimates, as many as two million German women were raped by Soviet occupiers. General Eisenhower denied the Germans access to any foreign aid, meaning that German civilians were forced to subsist on about 1,200 calories a day. (American officials privately acknowledged at the time that the death rate amongst adults had risen to four times the pre-war levels; child mortality had increased tenfold). With the authorization of President Franklin Delano Roosevelt, over four million Germans were impressed into forced labor. General George S. Patton was so disgusted by American policy in post-war Germany that he commented in his diary, “It is amusing to recall that we fought the revolution in defense of the rights of man and the civil war to abolish slavery and have now gone back on both principles”

Although an astonishing 2.5 million ordinary Germans were killed in the post-Reich era, few know of this traumatic history. There has been an unspoken understanding amongst historians that the Germans effectively got what they deserved as perpetrators of the Holocaust. First ashamed of their national humiliation at the hands of the Allies and Soviets, and later ashamed of the horrors of the Holocaust, Germans too have remained largely silent"

More recommendations;

The Life of Napoleon Buonaparte, Emperor of the French: With a Preliminary View of the French Revolution, by Walter Scot, (9 Volumes)

The Secret World Government or “The Hidden Hand”: The Unrevealed in History by Major General Count Cherep-Spriridovich

Proofs of a Conspiracy Against All the Religions and Governments of Europe: Carried on in the Secret Meetings of Free Masons, Illuminati, and Reading Societies John Robison

I think this previous one includes the discovered documents in Bavaria showing the planning of the French Revolution, these organizations (on which unfortunately many people stop) were proxies for these jews.

Wall Street & the Rise of Hitler by Antony C. Sutton

Wall Street and the Bolshevik Revolution by Antony C. Sutton

Nuremberg: The Last Battle David Irving

Apocalypse 1945: The Destruction of Dresden by David Irving

Churchill, Hitler, and “The Unnecessary War”: How Britain Lost Its Empire and the West Lost the World by Patrick J. Buchanan

The Last Days Of The Romanovs Robert Wilton

Now it’s up to you.

Let’s remember that during WW2, Churchill suspended Habeas Corpus, arrested everybody who opposed him and his war, putting Admirals, Generals and hundreds of people in Jail, for years, no charges, no trial. An after that, a law was passed to make it illegal to oppose them and their version of history.

Churchill, De Gaulle and Eisenhower wrote 7.000 pages of diaries and books during the War, there is no mention at all of holocaust or extermination camps. There has been many independent researches by many international groups, no proof whatsoever of gas chamber, mass graves, nothing. It’s against common sense. Soviets murdered dozens of millions, with just a bullet. But the Nazis put people in prison, gave them food, blankets, prison uniforms for years to gas them later? Why the waste? It’s illogical. Occam razor, they were detained and put in prison for treason charges and keep there, they were allowed to leave the country for years, those who choose to remain were warned and put into prisons, because their Nation had declared war on them. Precautionary measures, as the US detained Japanese. Of course by libertarian ethics it’s still immoral but it’s not what it’s been exaggerated to make the war appear not a waste of millions of men and treasure for another European war and to advance the jewish agenda (which exists, check their power how they got a whole country and destroyed the most sacred right, free spech by putting into prison historian who dares to criticize them).

By the way, isn’t Mises Institute oppose to censorship? Why the poster didn’t start with… this historical event is the only one forbidden to be investigated and you can be put into prison for daring to oppose it’s supposed veracity or for asking for proofs.

It’s easy to understand, the Germans (and lots of countries and people) believe jews to be loyal only to the jews and were not allowed to escalate into government positions out of fear they will work against the country. Jews have strong bonds between them, double nationality and it’s a fact they have massive power with very little numbers. Non-jews fear their control and enacted laws in their countries to not allow jews into high power positions. The Jews were anger by that and declared boycott and economic and sabotage war against Germany for daring to not allow them into their Government/banking/corporations. They maneuver Britain and the US against them and launched a propaganda campaign.

But the war ended, it’s not necessary to maintain the propaganda and lies now.

Facts are clear, it was all lies (Allies=All-lies). Please, stop the Six Million died, they never did, but there were several millions of Germans who really died, burned by Churchill terrorist fire-bombing campaigns and Eisenhower murdered of surrendered Germans.

Did you know the Allies kept million of Germans as slaves for several years after the War? That they implemented a policy of hunger as revenge?

Have you read the 300.000 murdered in Dresden bombings? Did you know Hitler refused to fire-bomb Britain for months? He let them escape in Dunkirk and offer Peace several times. Meanwhile Churchill was busy detained those who oppose him and his supporters plans of War.

For God sakes, please, look at the result, two thirds of Europe under Communism, a war to save Poland.. by allying with the Soviets who invaded Poland! And leaving Poland under Communism forever!

Gulags and Soviet Terror were clearly known and public, allying with the Soviets instead of with Germany was the worst crime against humanity ever committed. The Americans and common-wealthers should be ashamed of the rulers that send them to fight those who respected them, wanted peace with them and were no threat to them, and all to help Communism.

Talking about the “Holocaust” of supposedly 6 millions (which no serious researcher defends now, at most a million, and due to hunger of the lasts years of bombing of Germany) when 60 million Christians were murder in the Soviet Union, who was lead in a 90% by Jews is insulting.

And,

All I’m saying is that if if we want to stop the state, it would be useful to detect in history who pushed for bigger, controlling all-powerful states and who benefits most from them. I don’t want to hate or go against anybody,

I just point out a evident fact, taxes and regulations were lower in time of Christianity and monarchy. Centralized fiat money and all-powerful states with total war appear during and after revolutions instigated and financed by jews. A group that for whatever reasons our ancestors banned and control careful, they know and warn us they use to infiltrate and escalate to control governments, media, corporations and achieve total control. I believe they press for the state and taking that into account will help the cause of freedom. Had the French been more careful and less naive when they were warned, lots of lives could have been saved, the same in the British revolution, the Russian, the Spanish civil War and many more. If you want to avoid a final one world tyranny you should not only look at the state, but at those who instigate it, gain from it, and use it. It won’t be easy, this is real, there is a conspiracy to suppress and not allow books to come into print. And in information warfare infiltration is used to damage the reputation of the enemy, and it works, many high ranking military advised the British Government they were being pushed, maneuvered by a group of bankers and other powerful people mostly jewish into a war not useful or necessary for Britain, The same in America, and they were arrested for being “pro-german”.

This is not a call for antisemitism or anything bad, the worse I could suggest is to not allow Jews into government and divest more intelligence, police and judicial resources into people who work together for their common goal using nations in which they live to advance their own agenda. And it’s not me, many many people have been warning for centuries. Any decent regular jew would accept that, that some rich guys of their same religion work together and manipulate whole countries, given that I don’t see a big problem in not allowing double-nationals with a loyalty to another country control our lives, or to warn people of past historical plots so they are watching to prevent the next one.

In fact, jews should be the most anti-jewish group of all, to check where their hate comes from and if they have enemies using them inside!.

Their high-ranking are using them, scarifying them for their goals, it’s a fact they accepted the sacrifice of hundred of thousands of jews being rounded up in Germany if with that they could win Palestine, they sacrifice their people, they are traitor, high ranking rabbis and jews are a shame for the real pacific jews.

And,

Eyewitness of an event that is physically impossible are called liars, tergiversed, manipulated, bought or tortured or faked.

It has even been proven in court that no gas chamber existed, the closest thing to that are shower room that if used to gas would leak the gas and kill everybody including the guards nearby, there are no mass-graves. Please explain, if there are so many many eyewitness and testimonies and documents of mass killings, where the hell are the bodies? Hmm.. maybe the eyewitness and testimonies and documents can be fabricated and “convinced” to declare and the physical proof of bodies can not be faked or fabricated. But that doesn’t matter, they control the education, the media, all the children will and are learning the 6 million figure, and no historian or researcher with opposing views will ever appear on TV or in the papers. So only a few will find the truth by accident and when he speaks auto-censoring of people will enter and call him anti-semite.

(Technically the allies can call the buddy-buddy Stalin for some millions of corpses in the Europe they “rescued” by giving it entirely to him, oh, such a great liberating war, we liberate limited constitutional monarchies and gave them to the soviet monster machine, such a great war!)

Isn’t it ironic in a libertarian forum to talk about how state subsidies make people fake the necessary conditions to get the subsidies?

Here you got it, there are today “holocaust” “survivors” receiving benefits… who never set foot on Germany, who spend their whole life in Argentina!

Thanks to the german, american and swiss taxpayers! Meanwhile millions live in poverty and extreme conditions in Siberia. But they don’t matter, they are not jews, they are Christians, they will never live in sunny beachy Israel with high-tech german and american technology for free, with eternal subsidies! I hope one day they will be ashamed of them, I wish this fakers could one day go to Siberia and see a poor bearded man living in hellish conditions just taking it, while he fakes and lies his “stories” out of sheep societal union to their jewish corporation (it’s a mafia like organization atop, disguising and using a religion and his follower as tools).

And to be clear, so they don’t go ad-hominem on me, I feel empathy and sadness to the majority of jews, who are unaware of how they were and are being used, sacrificed and have terrible people faking to share their religion.

Edit: Isn’t it ironic that Christians will acknowledge their bads, and recognize them, like Inquisition, going after Astronomers, Crusades, bad apples in molesting cases… most accept it… but most jews and of course the leading ones refuse to accept people of their faith instigated revolutions to take control of countries and install central banking/debt based economies and fractional reserve legal protection for their plunder. Curios..Oh I know why, they are still at it!

Have to be among the most ridiculous things I have ever read.

during WW2, Churchill suspended Habeas Corpus → Regulation 18B

law was passed to make it illegal to oppose them and their version of history - > Holocaust Denial Laws in Europe

Churchill, De Gaulle and Eisenhower wrote 7.000 pages of diaries and books during the War, there is no mention at all of holocaust or extermination camps →

Three of the best known works on the Second World War are General Eisenhower’s Crusade in Europe (New York: Doubleday [Country Life Press], 1948), Winston Churchill’s The Second World War (London: Cassell, 6 vols., 1948-1954), and the Mémoires de guerre of General de Gaulle (Paris: Plon, 3 vols., 1954-1959). In these three works not the least mention of Nazi gas chambers is to be found.

Eisenhower’s Crusade in Europe is a book of 559 pages; the six volumes of Churchill’s Second World War total 4,448 pages; and de Gaulle’s three-volume Mémoires de guerre is 2,054 pages. In this mass of writing, which altogether totals 7,061 pages (not including the introductory parts), published from 1948 to 1959, one will find no mention either of Nazi “gas chambers,” a “genocide” of the Jews, or of “six million” Jewish victims of the war.

There has been many independent researches by many international groups, no proof whatsoever of gas chamber, mass graves, nothing →

Ernst Zundel Trial. Expert technicians in prison camps examined the camps and testified and demonstrated no gas could had happen.

Treblinka, October 1999, Richard Krege and his australian team looked 6 days for any kinds of mass graves, nothing was found.

I could go gon and source every word I said.

In those videos I posted there’s a 10 part series of David Irving discussing Churchill, Hitler, and WWII, and talks about there was no mention of concentration camps or gas chambers, especially in Churchill’s 7,000 page book.